Is 2011 a lost year for the USDGC

[setthegearshift]

So I notice while watching on discgolfplanet that they keep refering to shusterick winning 2 years in a row. So are we completely ignoring the usdgc's existence last year?

 

[Fightingthetide1]

Wasn't there a change in the format? Two years ago was the last time there was a normal format, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[jsun3thousand]

last year was just the handicapped edition. this year was both open and handicapped. i can't remember if it was greenwell or crazy but one of them kept saying they were in california. i'll take crazy and greenwell not knowing where they are over billy crump. overall, the coverage was good this year.

 

[Frank Delicious]

the crowds at the USDGC this year were super light compared to 2010, the 2011 handicapped only addition really hurt their brand.

 

[keltik1]

I'm trying to block it out of my mind but that trainwreck just won't leave.

 

[jsun3thousand]

the payout decreased this year to below 2001 levels because the open field was significantly smaller than non-performance years. the pdga site craps out and doesn't have data for the usdgc in 2000.

12-schusterick. $7,500... wysocki.... $4,000..total ~48,285 not published on pgda.com 58 players
10-schusterick $12,000.. locastro..... $6,000..total$75,000 185 players
09-locastro.... $15,000.. feldberg..... $8,000..total$80,000 192 players
08-doss........ $12,000.. jenkins...... $6,000..total$82,130 188 players
07-climo...... $15,000.. jenkins...... $6,000..total$87,650 168 players
06-schultz.... $11,000.. schweberger $6,000..total$83,650 174 players
05-feldberg... $11,000.. martin....... $6,000..total $80,000 184 players
04-climo...... $10,000.. nodland.......$4,000..total 75,573 179 players
03-climo......$10,000.. schultz.........$4,000..total $64,130 163 players
02-climo.......$8,000.. schultz.........$5,000.. total $56,800 150 players
01-schultz.....$8,000.. climo...........$5,5000..total $55,940 123 players

total usdgc payout for 11 years $789,158
just for reference:
top salaries in obscure sports http://www.totalprosports.com/2011/10/14/13-top-salaries-from-obscure-pro-sports/

 

[JHern]

Greenwell and Crazy kept saying during the DGP broadcast that the USDGC is the "premiere event in professional disc golf." It has a great payout, but I have a very difficult time buying this as the "premiere event," for many reasons:
1) A World Championship is obviously bigger/greater than just a US championship. Worlds is the big one, by its very definition.
2) The competition takes place at only one course, every time, and every single day of the competition. The entire affair, from year-to-year, round-to-round, etc, is limited to only 18 holes. It is a great course, but only 18 holes? Seriously?
3) Invitation-only will inevitably leave out competitors who could win the event if they competed. Worlds casts a much broader net.
4) No women. This should be called the USMDGC (M=Men's).

We have been thinking about putting together a new major event, which would be invite-only (and/or 1000-rated-only), no registration fee, travel costs of players fully supported, $100K purse, etc.. For a field of ~100 players, an annual budget of between $150K-200K would be required.

 

[Fightingthetide1]

Is the format switching every other year to the handicapped scoring?

 

[Jesse B 707]

Greenwell and Crazy kept saying during the DGP broadcast that the USDGC is the "premiere event in professional disc golf." It has a great payout, but I have a very difficult time buying this as the "premiere event," for many reasons:
1) A World Championship is obviously bigger/greater than just a US championship. Worlds is the big one, by its very definition.
2) The competition takes place at only one course, every time, and every single day of the competition. The entire affair, from year-to-year, round-to-round, etc, is limited to only 18 holes. It is a great course, but only 18 holes? Seriously?
3) Invitation-only will inevitably leave out competitors who could win the event if they competed. Worlds casts a much broader net.
4) No women. This should be called the USMDGC (M=Men's).

We have been thinking about putting together a new major event, which would be invite-only (and/or 1000-rated-only), no registration fee, travel costs of players fully supported, $100K purse, etc.. For a field of ~100 players, an annual budget of between $150K-200K would be required.

Women can play the USDGC

 

[jsun3thousand]

greenwell is kind of obligated to say it's still the premiere event because he represents innova. not sure why crazy says it is. maybe it's out of loyalty and tradition, i don't know.

knocking the event because it takes place on one course is debatable. the course allows spectating and is close to innova's east office. it's easier for them to organize the event in their backyard with people they have been working with. the course does change from year to year and it's a testing ground for new rules.
the clown's mouth is gone. stroke and distance came and went.

the usdgc used to include women. the women's world champ of that year used to receive an invite that remained standing. val jenkins was there in 10, 09, 08, and 07. des played in 06, 05, and 04. des had the best finish between the two coming in 95th place. no women in the open flight this year because of the invite process. only non-protected open division tournaments, men's open division, counted towards an invitation. unless if you were in the top 20 in 2010's usdgc, than you received an automatic invite. http://www.usdgc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/2012-USDGC-Qualifying-Information-7.5.12.pdf

the usdgc is the premiere event of disc golf because it has the biggest payout, despite the payout dropping, and is invite only. in 09, the usdgc was 35% of nikko's winnings and i'm sure it helped pay for his prius. despite playing poorly due to injury, the usdgc was still ~12% of his winnings this year and his biggest tournament paycheck. the invite only part in the past was wonky. there were sponsorship invites, state pdga rep invites, and other ways to get into the tournament besides qualifying on merit. nobody that has won the usdgc got in through an non-merit invite. innova biffed the premier title in 2011 by not having a cash prize usdgc. according to jonathan poole, innova was losing money holding the event and it was a logistical nightmare heavily relying on volunteers. that's why it changed formats.

there is a gap for a new premiere event to fill in for the usdgc. i don't know who would want to sink 150-200k into one tournament if the leading manufacturer in the sport doesn't. if innova doesn't see enough return on their investment in the usdgc, why would somebody else want to drop a bunch of money to make the top 100 disc golfers happy? a massive paradigm shift needs to occur to get people to pay money to watch disc golf or for sponsors to see a return on paying to have their ads in-front of an audience for disc golf to be a sustainable career for more than a handful of people. until then, professional disc golf is just a gypsy gambling tour inflated by weekend warriors donating to open pools and sponsorship money coming from the free labor of dedicated people setting up the tour.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Despite a smaller total purse and first place prize, the amount Innova added to the purse went up $4000 from $33,000 in 2010 to $37,250 which amounted to more than $640 cash added per Open player entered this year.

 

[Star Shark]

Juliana Korver and Angela Tschiggfrie played in the tourney. Juliana is still the only woman ever to cash in the USDGC. I believe the USWDGC winner gets an invite also. There WERE a few women playing in the performance flight this year.

 

[jsun3thousand]

Despite a smaller total purse and first place prize, the amount Innova added to the purse went up $4000 from $33,000 in 2010 to $37,250 which amounted to more than $640 cash added per Open player entered this year.

did any of the extra $4,000 innova paid to the pros come from the performance flight? there was $7,100 in cash paid by the performance flight. the link to the performance flight results on the pdga site takes you directly to usdgc's site and has no payout information. also there is hefty list of sponsor to help innova with that extra 4,000. http://www.usdgc.com/our-sponsors

Juliana Korver and Angela Tschiggfrie played in the tourney. Juliana is still the only woman ever to cash in the USDGC. I believe the USWDGC winner gets an invite also. There WERE a few women playing in the performance flight this year.

i didn't know about korver or tschiggfrie. you're correct about uscdgc champion getting an invite in the past.
here's a link to 2010 qualifying instructions: http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.usdgc.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/2010_USDGC_Qualifying2.pdf

Section 6. Special Invitations
The following people will become eligible for entry following the completion of each respective event. Special
invitation positions are guaranteed for 30 days after the event.
2009 Women's United States Champion (Open)
2010 United States Amateur Champion (Men's Advanced)
2010 Women's World Champion (Open)
2010 Masters World Champion
2010 Grand Masters World Champion
2010 Amateur World Champion (Men's Advanced)
2010 Regional & Global Qualifier Tournament Directors
Note: Tournament Director exemptions may be assigned to a co-tournament director if approved by
both the listed tournament director and the USDGC Organizing committee. Tournament directors
should contact the USDGC office as soon as possible if they wish to transfer their position.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Greenwell and Crazy kept saying during the DGP broadcast that the USDGC is the "premiere event in professional disc golf." It has a great payout, but I have a very difficult time buying this as the "premiere event," for many reasons:
1) A World Championship is obviously bigger/greater than just a US championship. Worlds is the big one, by its very definition.
2) The competition takes place at only one course, every time, and every single day of the competition. The entire affair, from year-to-year, round-to-round, etc, is limited to only 18 holes. It is a great course, but only 18 holes? Seriously?
3) Invitation-only will inevitably leave out competitors who could win the event if they competed. Worlds casts a much broader net.
4) No women. This should be called the USMDGC (M=Men's).
.

You just described The Masters with those last three.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There was no payout for the Performance Flight, just a first place trophy or maybe trophies. The player pack appeared to be worth more than the $100 entry fee paid by the Performance entrants.

 

[JR]

2010 President's Cup brought women to the course and Val Jenkins (106.), Camilla Jernberg (140.), Des Reading (143.) and Birgitta Lagerholm (154.) played the USDGC too.

 

[jsun3thousand]

There was no payout for the Performance Flight, just a first place trophy or maybe trophies. The player pack appeared to be worth more than the $100 entry fee paid by the Performance entrants.

Despite a smaller total purse and first place prize, the amount Innova added to the purse went up $4000 from $33,000 in 2010 to $37,250 which amounted to more than $640 cash added per Open player entered this year.

here's the performance flight players' pack for this year:
• Huk Lab Hoodie- a sponsor
• Innova Champion Roc Limited Edition- at cost
• Innova DX Pumpkin Aviar- at cost
• Disc Mania Fever- at cost
• USDGC Personalized Jersey-
• Keen Duffle / Player Pack Bag - a sponsor
• Competitor Credentials- ?
• Keen Pro Deal Card- coupon
• Sugar Buzz Bars- look homemade
• Orion Disc Golf T-shirt- sponsor
• Caramel Corn (with pecans) supporter
• Disc Stalker Bag Tag-supporter
• Disc Golf Center Sticker- sponsor
• York County Visitors Guide- free
• Plays it Forward Brochure- free
• Camp Canaan Brochure- free
• Sonic Coupons- free
• LSDiscs Vinyl Decal and Can Hugger- sponsor
• Innova Sticker- at cost

http://www.usdgc.com/10/03/2012-player-pack-contents.

you can argue the players' pack retails at $100. with marketplace hype, some time, and a little entrepreneurial spirit, somebody could turn a small profit from their player's pack. that's not important. somebody with disc golf retail/wholesale knowledge can probably give an accurate estimate how what innova paid for each player's pack. i don't believe, as chuck stated, innova added $4000 more to the professional division than in 2010 from their benevolent pockets. innova took from the performance division and gave to the professional division to cover the addition.

players' packs costing innova a $100 dollars each, the cash added to the open division from the performance division breaks down as:

at 90% cost $710
at 85% cost $1065
at 80% cost $1420
at 75% cost $1775
at 70% cost $2130
at 65% cost $2485
at 60% cost $2840
at 55% cost $3195
at 50% cost $3550
at 45% cost $3950
at 40% cost $4260

at best, the addition of the performance division covered the $4,000 additional money added to the pro purse from 2010 to 2012, possibly adding. even skimming $10 from each performance player, innova covers 17.5% of the $4,000 addition. this does mot account for all the discs and other innova related stuff the performance division purchased.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Does it matter where the extra money came from? It was still paid from Innova's pocket. All of Innova's income comes from disc golfers so it's kind of pointless to say some came from here and some came from there. The player pack wasn't the only thing the performance players received when you include things like free food, golf cart shuttles and all of the innova staff labor supporting them to produce a top flight professional experience.

The point is they did add $4000 more even with a pro field 1/3 the size as before. If they added the same amount of cash per player as they did in 2010 ($180 vs $640 this year) they would only have added about $12,000 instead of the $37,000 they did add. Innova decided to transform the USDGC format after 2010 partly due to unsustainable financial drain along with the inability to generate enough spectators to eventually attract additional sponsors. It looks like the new split format could be a more sustainable model and top pros should be very happy that may continue.

 

[jsun3thousand]

forgive me for posting about disc golf economics, for i have sinned. in the name of innova, the pdga and all its committees- especially the rules committee, and U.S patent no 4,568,297, amen.

my friend adjusted the payouts according to inflation. these numbers look awesome. hooray innova and the pdga for this wonderful world and all the disc golfers they have benevolently cared for.

year nominalPayout.... realPayout (in 2001 dollars)
2001 8000................................. 8000
2002 8000................................. 7875
2003 10000................................. 9625
2004 10000................................. 9375
2005 11000................................. 9974
2006 11000................................. 9663
2007 15000................................. 12812
2008 12000.................................. 9870
2009 15000................................. 12382
2010 12000.................................. 9746
2012 7500.................................. 5766

on a positive note for the usdgc, nate doss is awesome. a true disc golf ambassador. val is awesome and an ambassador, too.



read lots of complaining about the usdgc rule changes this year, again. i hope they all repent as well.

 

[JHern]

There was no payout for the Performance Flight, just a first place trophy or maybe trophies. The player pack appeared to be worth more than the $100 entry fee paid by the Performance entrants.

Just to play that course for 4 rounds, all to yourselves, in cherry condition, with all the spotters and wonderful facilities, events, excitement, and great people around...that alone is worth way more than $100!