Just finding that right disc...

[RoDeO]

Just started playing about 6 weeks ago. I'm a 47 year old man. I played occasionally several years ago but knew nothing about the sport, form, discs, etc. I thought the starter pack discs was all that was really available. And then, my son started playing last year and got pretty good and reintroduced me to the sport. He took me to the local disc store and I was blown away at all the discs- hundreds to choose from. And so, like a newbie I bought several discs with the high speed rating and started throwing them. I threw them so much I was hooked. I soon found out that anything over about a speed 8 was too much so I gave all my distant drivers to my son and started over. At about the 3 week mark I injured my arm from overuse (RHBH) and was pretty bummed. I was maxing out around the 230-250 foot range with average drives going about 185-210.

And then...I woke and realized God blessed me with a left arm too! And so about two weeks ago I started teaching myself to throw lefty. What I found was that my drives from the left hand back hand were going the same distance. My putting was atrocious but I am working on that.

Tonight I went and bought both an Innova Sidewinder in the G-star plastic and a Mamba in the Champion plastic and towards the end I threw two drives right around the 260 foot mark and one right at 300 feet with the Mamba. Up till this point my farthest drive was 256 with a Heat z-line. What I am finding is that there is almost an infinite amount of discs and finding the right one is both fun and intriguing. It took me buying 10 drivers to finally find one that works.

Hats off to Innova's Mamba. That disc for a newbie is awesome.

 

[ray1970]

I've been playing for a little over three years and am roughly your age. I've tried way more than ten discs and even though I'm pretty happy with the discs that I currently carry I'm still not convinced I've found my perfect disc just yet.

 

[Rastnav]

Hats off to Innova's Mamba. That disc for a newbie is awesome.

As a fellow new player, with only about 4 months playing, and someone who is also past my whippersnapper years, being 50, I've a few thoughts.

You may have been trying throw too hard, using only your arm. I say that because I was way out of shape, and have managed to play at least 1 round every day, and sometimes two or three. I did some early form reviews on the forums here, and that has definitely helped. Just a thought as you move forward with your left hand.

You might want to check out Daily Disc Golf on YouTube. Noah broke his right hand at some point in the year and also taught himself left handed play while his arm was down. He's back to playing RH, but you can find his videos from him throwing LH.

Finding the right disc is so satisfying. I'm currently at the "have too many discs that overlap, but also have holes in my bag" stage.

Don't overlook disc weight as a factor. I'm guessing Dick's is selling discs around 170G, but for me, slightly lighter discs have be a real boon. You might want to try any of the Latitude 64 line specifically for new players. They all are named for precious stones. Perhaps check out a 159g "Diamond". You can order that directly from the Dynamic Discs website, with free shipping.

Welcome to what seems to be the best kind of addiction!

 

[Keller]

Welcome to the game!

First off, they're is no perfect disc. If you get caught in that head set, you'll just be a disc accumulator.

If your arm is sore, it's probably because you're just throwing with your arm. I started playing at 50 and after a few weeks, my shoulder arm and right knee were a mess, I had no idea how to really throw. Try and find someone who really knows how to throw correctly (not just someone who throws far) and slow down. I'm 58 now, I throw or play pretty much every day and I very rarely get sore, I'll get tired first.

Take a look through this thread and make an attempt to follow it. It works.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32790

At 250ft, you have no business throwing a Sidewinder or a Mamba, sorry, don't mean to be rude, but you don't have the technique and or arm speed to get these discs to fly as they are designed. With a little work, you'd be surprised how far a DX Cheetah will fly and will out fly your Mamba with accuracy.

Best of luck and with a little work, this can be the game for life. But, if you don't get the basics, you could just end up being that guy that never throws more than 250ft who carries a bag of high speed drivers and is always in pain. Don't be that guy!

 

[zontar]

rastnav is right about the Lat 64 Diamond. I'm 55, and while I don't throw ALL light discs, you really should try them out. experiment with arm speed and you may feel like you're cheating with a light disc (150 class)

 

[mojorooks]

Just started playing about 6 weeks ago. I'm a 47 year old man. I played occasionally several years ago but knew nothing about the sport, form, discs, etc. I thought the starter pack discs was all that was really available. And then, my son started playing last year and got pretty good and reintroduced me to the sport. He took me to the local disc store and I was blown away at all the discs- hundreds to choose from. And so, like a newbie I bought several discs with the high speed rating and started throwing them. I threw them so much I was hooked. I soon found out that anything over about a speed 8 was too much so I gave all my distant drivers to my son and started over. At about the 3 week mark I injured my arm from overuse (RHBH) and was pretty bummed. I was maxing out around the 230-250 foot range with average drives going about 185-210.

And then...I woke and realized God blessed me with a left arm too! And so about two weeks ago I started teaching myself to throw lefty. What I found was that my drives from the left hand back hand were going the same distance. My putting was atrocious but I am working on that.

Tonight I went and bought both an Innova Sidewinder in the G-star plastic and a Mamba in the Champion plastic and towards the end I threw two drives right around the 260 foot mark and one right at 300 feet with the Mamba. Up till this point my farthest drive was 256 with a Heat z-line. What I am finding is that there is almost an infinite amount of discs and finding the right one is both fun and intriguing. It took me buying 10 drivers to finally find one that works.

Hats off to Innova's Mamba. That disc for a newbie is awesome.

My favorite thing to do is visit a local used disc seller and buy a bunch. You can get some discs with very little wear but are already broken in. Its a great way to try a new disc without paying full price.

Don't get rid of the discs that don't work for you. As you improve you may figure out how to use them.

My disc buying phases:
A - bought 4 random discs. Didn't know anything about them, just wanted different colors. Luckily 2 of them were valkyries and worked great for me.
B - Bought a bunch of Clearance/X-outs from Marshall Street using the discs I liked as a template I looked at the Flight Chart and got 13 speeds.
C - realized that fast discs may go farther but they tend to go farther in the wrong direction. LImited myself to 9 speeds. I also actually bought putters
D - Got sick of spending so much time looking for my discs. Now I only buy brightly colored discs.

 

[RoDeO]

As a fellow new player, with only about 4 months playing, and someone who is also past my whippersnapper years, being 50, I've a few thoughts.

You may have been trying throw too hard, using only your arm. I say that because I was way out of shape, and have managed to play at least 1 round every day, and sometimes two or three. I did some early form reviews on the forums here, and that has definitely helped. Just a thought as you move forward with your left hand.

You might want to check out Daily Disc Golf on YouTube. Noah broke his right hand at some point in the year and also taught himself left handed play while his arm was down. He's back to playing RH, but you can find his videos from him throwing LH.

Finding the right disc is so satisfying. I'm currently at the "have too many discs that overlap, but also have holes in my bag" stage.

Don't overlook disc weight as a factor. I'm guessing Dick's is selling discs around 170G, but for me, slightly lighter discs have be a real boon. You might want to try any of the Latitude 64 line specifically for new players. They all are named for precious stones. Perhaps check out a 159g "Diamond". You can order that directly from the Dynamic Discs website, with free shipping.

Welcome to what seems to be the best kind of addiction!

With my right arm I was definitely all arm and hence the overuse injury. I still feel like I'm strong arming a lot of drives from my left side but it feels a lot smoother and sometimes the discs really fly with minimal effort.

The second driver I bought was the Diamond in their Opto plastic. It weighs in at 153 grams. It was my go to driver as a righty but with my left I tend to grip lock it too much and can't control the release. Sometimes I can get a real nice drive with it but for now I just use it as a practice disc in the field. The heaviest disc I own is my Heat at 176 and I can consistantly throw it the farthest for averages. Not sure why but maybe something to do with being able to feel it better as it's coming through. My new Mamba is 164 g and the Sidewinder is 167 g.

I feel too that I have too many discs and yet have holes needing to be filled or figured out. I actually love buying discs and doesn't bother me at all if I get one and it doesn't work out. I just give it away and get the pleasure of watching others end up with a free disc. I actually have more putters than anything (8 in all) and love throwing them as drivers and approach shots on anything less than 200 feet. I just bought a Luna and was really surprised how far it glides.

 

[RoDeO]

Welcome to the game!

First off, they're is no perfect disc. If you get caught in that head set, you'll just be a disc accumulator.

If your arm is sore, it's probably because you're just throwing with your arm. I started playing at 50 and after a few weeks, my shoulder arm and right knee were a mess, I had no idea how to really throw. Try and find someone who really knows how to throw correctly (not just someone who throws far) and slow down. I'm 58 now, I throw or play pretty much every day and I very rarely get sore, I'll get tired first.

Take a look through this thread and make an attempt to follow it. It works.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32790

At 250ft, you have no business throwing a Sidewinder or a Mamba, sorry, don't mean to be rude, but you don't have the technique and or arm speed to get these discs to fly as they are designed. With a little work, you'd be surprised how far a DX Cheetah will fly and will out fly your Mamba with accuracy.

Best of luck and with a little work, this can be the game for life. But, if you don't get the basics, you could just end up being that guy that never throws more than 250ft who carries a bag of high speed drivers and is always in pain. Don't be that guy!

Thanks for the link. When I started throwing lefty I watched a bunch of videos and played practice round after practice round with just my putter. I know I'm a long ways off from getting my mechanics perfected but it feels great on my arm.

Quick question for ya- If a person finds a disc that they can drive straighter and farther than any other disc he owns by 50 feet how is that the wrong business? Who cares about what the disc is designed to do in a seasoned players hands and getting it to fly as it was designed for? That all will come in time. With my slower arm speed as a newbie the Mamba actually works to my greatest benefit as a distance driver right now because I can't overcome the turn and so it goes lazer straight.

If a person walked into disc golf shop and asked for a disc that they could get an extra 50 feet with and there was such a disc available, why wouldnt they buy it? Who cares if someone else can throw that same disc a 150 feet farther or a different one farther? Chances are that I will gain experience and strength and improve technique and no longer will that disc be my farthest driver.

Btw, I think it's quite an accomplishment as a 47 year old who just started a couple weeks ago to throw 300 feet from their weak side. Who cares what disc it was.

 

[WeatherWimp]

First off, they're is no perfect disc. If you get caught in that head set, you'll just be a disc accumulator.

If your arm is sore, it's probably because you're just throwing with your arm.

While I agree there is no perfect disc that doesn't mean some discs aren't better than others for a person's throw. I'm not very good so maybe I'm wrong, but I do know that my Underworld outflies everything I've tried. Sometimes I can get an Air Fury or Air River to do better, but my 163g Underworld just seems to go the best (distance and accuracy).

Your point was likely just stop chasing the best disc especially if you are trying to throw discs of too high a speed and I agree with that generally. But just wanted to point out that at least for me it seems certain discs of similar ratings go better than others. I wish I knew how to find those discs.

rastnav is right about the Lat 64 Diamond. I'm 55, and while I don't throw ALL light discs, you really should try them out. experiment with arm speed and you may feel like you're cheating with a light disc (150 class)

What do you do in the wind with those light discs? My lighter ones on calmer days go better, but when it gets to be 15-20mph + I try to switch to heavier versions (in the 170s). I know more OS discs are supposed to handle the wind better than US ones, but I just haven't found any good OS discs for my arm speed I guess.

Quick question for ya- If a person finds a disc that they can drive straighter and farther than any other disc he owns by 50 feet how is that the wrong business?

IMO they should throw that disc if it is accurate, but then I'm also a perpetual rec player it seems so take my thought on discs with a big grain of salt.

On finding the right disc I wish I could go to a retailer and throw a few hundred and pick out my favorites, as I'm pretty sure thered be some that work better than others. But how do you tell until you throw them a lot is what I've never figured out.

The flight ratings don't seem to always match up, and even different plastics in the same model fly differently. I also remember in a video Paul McBeth or some other top player saying "This disc flies just like this other one, it is just smaller diameter and less (or more?) dome so you pick the one that is more comfortable" or something like that. What I want to know is where is the resoruce that indicates that as that'd help me find the right disc too. But I suppose that is what the flight numbers were supposed to do.

 

[Rastnav]

With my right arm I was definitely all arm and hence the overuse injury. I still feel like I'm strong arming a lot of drives from my left side but it feels a lot smoother and sometimes the discs really fly with minimal effort.

Here is the one video that will put all the other stuff you read or watch into he right context. I think.

The second driver I bought was the Diamond in their Opto plastic. It weighs in at 153 grams. It was my go to driver as a righty but with my left I tend to grip lock it too much and can't control the release. Sometimes I can get a real nice drive with it but for now I just use it as a practice disc in the field. The heaviest disc I own is my Heat at 176 and I can consistantly throw it the farthest for averages. Not sure why but maybe something to do with being able to feel it better as it's coming through. My new Mamba is 164 g and the Sidewinder is 167 g.

I feel too that I have too many discs and yet have holes needing to be filled or figured out. I actually love buying discs and doesn't bother me at all if I get one and it doesn't work out. I just give it away and get the pleasure of watching others end up with a free disc. I actually have more putters than anything (8 in all) and love throwing them as drivers and approach shots on anything less than 200 feet. I just bought a Luna and was really surprised how far it glides.

Yeah, I so get the urge to buy plastic. I have so much. I'm paring everything down now, but I don't see any reason not to experiment with different plastic to find the thing that works for you, as long as you don't get "Tin Cup" syndrome. At the moment I'm trying to find the right overstable mid and approach discs, and as my arm speed increases, I'm finding my understable stuff is now actually understable, so I need some true neutral discs in the three slots I throw (I don't use high speed drivers at the moment, unless you count the Saphire.) I've gone through three versions of a Wombat, and now the Star Wombat3 does exactly what I want it to, which is compensate for my lack of a dependable, non-pain inducing forehand.

I say I'm paring down, but I just got 6 more discs in my Discmania mystery box today. So maybe I'm paring up.

 

[JuanA]

I carried a Star Mamba for a few months and it did add distance to my poor form...throwing discs to get distance with poor form is the wrong direction. I think that's what Keller is talking about.

At 54 I'm not much older than you. Last summer I filled my bag with 3 Rocs and 3 Rhynos for a few months and played 3 shots off of every tee, then 3 approaches, etc.. I wish I had done it years prior since it really helped me focus on what I was doing wrong, and then a lot of the stuff in the techniques section started making more sense.

I've been throwing drivers again and started pulling old discs back down from my shelf. I tried the Mamba a few more times, but it was quickly shelved in favor of a Wraith. No offense to the Mamba, but with better form 'first', discs designed to get you the straight distance you talk about become available. Throwing the Mamba now to achieve distance will not only hide your flaws, but it will also enforce them.

 

[RoDeO]

While I agree there is no perfect disc that doesn't mean some discs aren't better than others for a person's throw. I'm not very good so maybe I'm wrong, but I do know that my Underworld outflies everything I've tried. Sometimes I can get an Air Fury or Air River to do better, but my 163g Underworld just seems to go the best (distance and accuracy).

Your point was likely just stop chasing the best disc especially if you are trying to throw discs of too high a speed and I agree with that generally. But just wanted to point out that at least for me it seems certain discs of similar ratings go better than others. I wish I knew how to find those discs.



What do you do in the wind with those light discs? My lighter ones on calmer days go better, but when it gets to be 15-20mph + I try to switch to heavier versions (in the 170s). I know more OS discs are supposed to handle the wind better than US ones, but I just haven't found any good OS discs for my arm speed I guess.



IMO they should throw that disc if it is accurate, but then I'm also a perpetual rec player it seems so take my thought on discs with a big grain of salt.

On finding the right disc I wish I could go to a retailer and throw a few hundred and pick out my favorites, as I'm pretty sure thered be some that work better than others. But how do you tell until you throw them a lot is what I've never figured out.

The flight ratings don't seem to always match up, and even different plastics in the same model fly differently. I also remember in a video Paul McBeth or some other top player saying "This disc flies just like this other one, it is just smaller diameter and less (or more?) dome so you pick the one that is more comfortable" or something like that. What I want to know is where is the resoruce that indicates that as that'd help me find the right disc too. But I suppose that is what the flight numbers were supposed to do.

I haven't been doing this for very long but I have already bought over 20 discs and some of them the same but different weights and plastics (Innova Leopard) and they are all so very different in how they fly. I too wish that they had a better flight rating system for discs as they change in weight and plastics and the effect of spin and velocity. I have some discs in a speed 8 that I can't even throw and others in a speed 9 that are almost too flippy and their turn and glide ratings are very similar.

I have found though that certain plastics work better for me whereas they don't work the same for others. My son can't even throw my heat which is a speed 9, it just flips over and turns into a roller for him and yet he can take a slower speed with more turn and it flies and glides perfect for him and I can't throw that disc at all.

I almost wish it were possible to be given a grade of sorts for how much spin and velocity, angle, etc, one imparts for certain plastics and weights of discs and then have a program tailored for how each disc will actually fly for them.

 

[Keller]

Quick question for ya- If a person finds a disc that they can drive straighter and farther than any other disc he owns by 50 feet how is that the wrong business? Who cares about what the disc is designed to do in a seasoned players hands and getting it to fly as it was designed for? That all will come in time. With my slower arm speed as a newbie the Mamba actually works to my greatest benefit as a distance driver right now because I can't overcome the turn and so it goes lazer straight.

If a person walked into disc golf shop and asked for a disc that they could get an extra 50 feet with and there was such a disc available, why wouldnt they buy it? Who cares if someone else can throw that same disc a 150 feet farther or a different one farther? Chances are that I will gain experience and strength and improve technique and no longer will that disc be my farthest driver.
.

I think you're missing the point. I don't care what you throw, if it makes you happy, knock yourself out. My point was/is, it's more rewarding to learn how to throw correctly from the beginning. If you have no interest in improving and just enjoy chucking, then that's fine. But if you really do like the game and want to improve, it's best to start now, not when you make your off arm sore too.

Just giving my opinion from someone who started the wrong way (like many of us).
If what you're doing makes you happy, then fine, but you made a post asking for suggestions, I just answered with my experience.

While I agree there is no perfect disc that doesn't mean some discs aren't better than others for a person's throw. I'm not very good so maybe I'm wrong, but I do know that my Underworld outflies everything I've tried. Sometimes I can get an Air Fury or Air River to do better, but my 163g Underworld just seems to go the best (distance and accuracy).

Your point was likely just stop chasing the best disc especially if you are trying to throw discs of too high a speed and I agree with that generally. But just wanted to point out that at least for me it seems certain discs of similar ratings go better than others. I wish I knew how to find those discs.

What do you do in the wind with those light discs? My lighter ones on calmer days go better, but when it gets to be 15-20mph + I try to switch to heavier versions (in the 170s). I know more OS discs are supposed to handle the wind better than US ones, but I just haven't found any good OS discs for my arm speed I guess.

IMO they should throw that disc if it is accurate, but then I'm also a perpetual rec player it seems so take my thought on discs with a big grain of salt.

On finding the right disc I wish I could go to a retailer and throw a few hundred and pick out my favorites, as I'm pretty sure thered be some that work better than others. But how do you tell until you throw them a lot is what I've never figured out.

Yes, some discs and plastics are better for each individual because we all have different hands and tactile feeling, ( I hate Champion and Z type plastics, they just slip out and stuff that's too soft I don't get a clean release on). My point is, if one just chases discs to do one thing, you'll never learn to manipulate a disc on different line and angles. My best round to date on my home course still holds 2 years later played with 4 discs in hand "a star Eagle, Pro Leopard, DX Roc and an Aviar" and it totally pissed off the guys on my card who first laughed at me on the first tee. I don't need a specific disc for each shot, I just adjust how I throw them.

Again, there is no magic disc, just discs that work better for your style and one will never know what ones style is if they keep chasing discs.

I stick by my suggestion of following the "how to build a bag thread". Pick 4 discs, play with just those four discs for a few months. You'll learn a lot and at the end of that period, you will then truly know what you need.

 

[Rastnav]

I stick by my suggestion of following the "how to build a bag thread". Pick 4 discs, play with just those four discs for a few months. You'll learn a lot and at the end of that period, you will then truly know what you need.

All well and good, but if you start by picking 4 discs that are completely wrong for your arm speed, and just stick with them because you are "supposed" to, you'll just be miserable.

For example, he suggests a Firebird as a "good" OS starter disc. I have a 154g Star Firebird and I can't get that disc to do anything other than go 150 feet and dump over to literally vertical. If you don't start with the arm speed to make that into just an overstable disc, as opposed to an insanely overstable disc, you're just wasting your time with it.

Another example, I have both a Roc and a Compass. I can do anything I want with the Compass, and I can do literally nothing with the Roc. I just absolutely hate that disc coming out of my hand. Same thing with an EMac Truth.

I bought 10+ different putter molds to find the one I actually really liked. Since then I've just stuck with, and learned to improve with, my Challenger.

Unless you are willing to put other plastic in your hand, you'll have no idea why you are miserable trying to learn to throw.


Now, this is a far cry from "I can only throw -4 turn discs because my form is completely wrong", and, absolutely, we all need to learn how to throw different shot shapes. But, if you're elbow doesn't want to throw a FH, and you are playing holes that need a FH shape, there is only so much you can do without understable plastic with good glide and no fade.

 

[Keller]

^ He also suggested the Firebird or Banshee in DX plastic. A DX Firebird flies nothing like a Star or champ. It was also suggested as a utility disc, not a distance driver.

When you're new, you have no clue what you're trying to do or what feels right, you're just learning how to throw. Base line plastic is your friend, it's easy to grip and breaks in. So a Roc doesn't feel good? Get an X Buzzz! I started with the Buzzz and switched to the Roc, I like the bead, but I can still throw a Buzzz.

I think folks make this a bigger problem than it needs to be.

 

[Rastnav]

^ He also suggested the Firebird or Banshee in DX plastic. A DX Firebird flies nothing like a Star or champ. It was also suggested as a utility disc, not a distance driver.

When you're new, you have no clue what you're trying to do or what feels right, you're just learning how to throw. Base line plastic is your friend, it's easy to grip and breaks in. So a Roc doesn't feel good? Get an X Buzzz! I started with the Buzzz and switched to the Roc, I like the bead, but I can still throw a Buzzz.

I think folks make this a bigger problem than it needs to be.

I don't need to get a Buzzz, I have a Compass.

See, first you said "Don't try lots of discs". Then when I said I had a disc I liked that wasn't one of the recommendations, you suggested I get a whole different disc. One you like.

As for base plastic, that EMac truth is in base plastic , and I don't like it either.

I think maybe you are the one making it complicated? Because for me it's simple. I don't like throwing those discs. I want to like them. They are classics. The "best". But I don't get on with them. But I am improving with the bag I have.

Let's face it, trying to throw hyzer with a beat in 150g leopard (the one disc I used to have), that didn't do my form any favors either. I know because I have video of what my form looked like when I started trying to improve it.

Yes, you need to pare down to a reasonable bag, and definitely playing with a very limited bag will teach you things you won't learn otherwise. Heck, play a one putter only round every now and then. But so will executing the same throw with different discs, to figure what your individual hand and body marry well with. That's no more or less complex than saying you will want to try on pants if you want to know if they actually fit.

 

[JuanA]

If you're chasing discs to work with a form that's hurting your arm, you're doing it wrong. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

RoDeO, if you're hurting your arm, slow down and take a look at the "Technique" section. This shouldn't be a painful activity and if it is, that says you need to adjust something.

 

[RoDeO]

I think you're missing the point. I don't care what you throw, if it makes you happy, knock yourself out. My point was/is, it's more rewarding to learn how to throw correctly from the beginning. If you have no interest in improving and just enjoy chucking, then that's fine. But if you really do like the game and want to improve, it's best to start now, not when you make your off arm sore too.

Just giving my opinion from someone who started the wrong way (like many of us).
If what you're doing makes you happy, then fine, but you made a post asking for suggestions, I just answered with my experience.

I started the wrong way with my right arm and while it's recovering I decided to learn the right way from my left side. I totally understand what you are saying from experience in my short time playing. I play a majority of my rounds with putters and midrange discs with speeds at 5 or below. I am a firm believer however in throwing as high a speed disc as possible for true distance drivers to check form against. All else being equal, you have to have a measuring stick for progress and a disc which will give you max distance. The Sidewinder and Mamba along with a few other drivers do that for me. I use them sparingly to gauge my progress against. Since I have started a little over 2 weeks ago I have went from throwing 175-200 feet average drives to 230-260 feet average drives. My max distance has increased by almost 75 feet in that time. What do I attribute it too? Mostly training the body and muscles to do something new. It's hard to say what effect throwing putters endlessly does. For some it may help correct flaws while in others it may enhance them. A week ago I played several days in a row with putters and then went to throw a fairway driver and I couldn't even throw it as far as the putter. So, the next time I went out I threw the fairway driver a lot and realized that because of the difference in rims I was not holding the driver correctly. I have since shifted to a more balanced practice of throwing the putters and approach discs equally. Once the arm is good and warm then come out the fairway and distance drivers. It always peaks at that point with my distance.

I think there's more than one way to skin a cat. Innova believes so too as they rank both the Sidewinder and Mamba as beginner distance drivers for new players. They are designed for beginners learning to throw for distance.

 

[Keller]

It's nice to see the SD86 school of thought is still alive and well.

 

[Rastnav]

It's nice to see the SD86 school of thought is still alive and well.

Uhhhhh, after a google search, I still don't know exactly what you mean, but I assume I'm supposed to feel chastened ... or in danger of banning.

Nice.