Missed Tee Time Question

[ru4por]

This situation came up earlier in the year. My foursome got stuck on the furthest hole on a 36 hole course. I grabbed the card as soon as it was post and made the long 2 mile journey.

On my way I stumbled across another member of our card along the way. We heard the two minute call and we still about 1/2 hole away from our assigned tee pad.

When we arrive another member of our card was sitting there alone, worried and waiting for us. We took the long way I guess. But another member of our card was missing.

You ever notice how the top card never starts the furthest away?

Shortly upon our arrival the start signal was given. I asked the other members of the card if they had any issue giving the 4th the another minute or so to arrive. We all agree to my suggestion. And low and behold he showed up in a frantic state.

It is amazing how much Sportsmanship and Courtesy can go into the implementation of rules. I have never seen anyone penalized for displaying those two qualities.

And of course no two situations are the same. It is amazing how far a minute patience can take you.

Yeah.....this is a brutal penalty. No competitive advantage to rolling up, in a panic, a few minutes late. I am about the rules, but players are not generally late, because they are screwing around. Usually is a hole confusion, difficulty finding the hole or a long walk. I would encourage a bit of foot dragging to start with and let the player tee off last. Also how most of the GM's I play with would do it.

 

[JoakimBL]

Brutal. When you have not teed off in the 30 seconds you have when it is your turn, you are finished with that hole, so when the last player has teed, the group has finished.

 

[biscoe]

I personally would likely not penalize the player in this case since it was obviously caused by the TD error of moving a tee time earlier after it was already announced (big time bonehead move). Are players supposed to hang out at tourney central all through lunch in case of such an eventuality? how were they to know otherwise?

 

[cheesethin]

If the competition manual said you were absent once your time to throw has passed, I wouldn't have an argument......

I agree, the phrasing you are referring to does bring in a some lack of clarity.

....but all it says is "completed holes or holes where the group has finished teeing off." It doesn't say anything about teeing order. SO which rule are we supposed to take first?

Interestingly, the competition manual DOES actually refer to teeing order, in the clause above the one you are quoting. Doesn't remove the lack of clarity, but....

Rule book 811.F.5

Missed Hole Due to Late Arrival or Absence. If a player is not present to throw when they are next in the throwing order, and remains absent for at least 30 seconds, the player does not make any more throws on the hole. The player's score for the hole is par plus four. Par is the score that an expert disc golfer would be expected to make on a given hole with errorless play under ordinary weather conditions, as determined by the Director. See Section 1.05.B of the Competition Manual for determining late arrival.

Competition Manual 105

E. If a player is not present to throw when it is their turn, the scorekeeper shall allow 30 seconds. If the player has not thrown after the 30 seconds has elapsed, a score of par plus four is to be entered for that hole. This procedure continues on any subsequent holes for which a player is absent. No holes shall be replayed. If a complete round is missed, or if a player does not finish a round, the player may, at the discretion of the Tournament Director, be disqualified.

F. Late-arriving players, for either Shotgun or Tee Time rounds, are responsible for checking with the TD, Tournament Central, or the Tee Time Starter to learn their correct starting group and are solely responsible for starting play with that playing group or the group created by the TD due to the player's absence. The player will receive the par plus four score for each hole that the playing group has either completed or finished teeing on. Playing with any other group constitutes an attempt to gain a competitive advantage and is a disqualification.

The player will receive the par plus four score for each hole that the playing group has either completed or finished teeing on.

This line is almost superfluous, it could possibly say something like 'Player receives penalties according to 105.E & 811.F.5

 

[JoakimBL]

105 F refers to when a player missed the start and joins his group that has begun playing. When the last player in the group already playing has teed off, the late player has missed that hole.
I guess this is so that the group doesn't have to wait 30 seconds on each hole for possibly the entire round.

This is just yet another player intentionally misunderstanding the rules to avoid being penalized.
However, in the given situation I would alow the late player/s to play the hole provisionally and let the TD decide if the score should stand or not. It should not be up to the group.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I agree, the phrasing you are referring to does bring in a some lack of clarity.



Interestingly, the competition manual DOES actually refer to teeing order, in the clause above the one you are quoting. Doesn't remove the lack of clarity, but....

Rule book 811.F.5


Competition Manual 105




This line is almost superfluous, it could possibly say something like 'Player receives penalties according to 105.E & 811.F.5

I stand corrected. I must have skimmed past that when I saw "Late arriving players" below it. I remember reading the couple footnotes above E... I guess my ADHD strikes again...

 

[IHearChains]

If you're late (especially if its the TD's fault), walk through the fairways backwards to get to your hole, that way your presence constitutes a distraction for every group in front of yours. The resulting chain reaction will slow down everything so you can make it to your tee. :hfive:opcorn:

 

[filobedo]

The PDGA needs to be informed of the TD doing this. Lots of newer TDs are having events in our area now and I have witnessed similar stupidity over the past couple of years including a TD stopping a round for lightning but he only told the players on holes #1-#6 and #15-#18. Another instance was the last card was turned in at 12:52 so the TD posted the next round was at 2:00 but started the next round at 1:52. It was like Sheldon Cooper was running the tournament.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I'm giving him a pass based on not having exhausted his reasonable amount of time to arrive at his lie. Also in the case of the 2 mile hike, a couple of minutes was probably reasonable.

The card would make that decision though, so the TD couldn't overturn based on that argument.

 

[broomerang]

This player in this instance got justice by not being penalized. He wasn't late by his fault, the TD started the round 20 mins earlier than he told the groups.

Also it sounds like everyone could see the player running towards the tee. I would have waited for him to arrive. His 30 secs timer would start at the time he got to the teepad and likely out of breath he would have had plenty of added challenge already.

The 30 seconds is meant to keep play moving, not to penalize people for no reason. Before everyone quotes me with "there was a reason, yada yada, blah blah". You guys are not being good card mates. If the situation was reversed and you lost because you were 30 seconds late to the hole and the TD screwed up the start time that would leave a sour taste in your mouth for sure.