Nikko Calls Foot Fault on Gurthie ... "Don't you shake his hand, bro.."

[New013]

that little side step turned in to a forward step past his lie

 

[esdubya]

I disagree with this point, I don't think marketing/advertising this sport to businesses with fresh money (which this sport desperately needs, we're a sinking ship if we keep relying on Amateur players to shoulder the load of amateur tournaments and the pro tour) is helped by spirit of the game. In fact I think it hurts us. It's not speaking a language that business owners care or understand. They speak in terms of investment and revenue - if we are unorganized (the current system) why, as a business owner, would you invest or sponsor anything related to disc golf? We as a sport are not accountable, not marketable, and flat out not an attractive option...

Unless you're in the church industry, the big money doesn't care about ethical morality. We could be a feel good story that gets donated $500 (oh yay, we're now a B-tier instead of a C!) or we could get our act together and work on pulling major $$$ to sponsor the tour. Hell even NASCAR has huge money coming to it from companies because its marketable - spirit of the race doesn't govern the Nationwide series, rules and officials do.

Yay, let's try to be like.. NASCAR? Sinking ship, really??

I'm one that is fine with modest and steady growth trajectory of our young sport. No need to inject a bunch of money right now. Like you said, money has no ethics or morality.

And ALL sports have rules issues despite their popularity. The most popular spectator sport in the world doesn't know how to call a goal correctly or call a foul correctly or call an off-sides correctly with very well paid officials. The large amount of $$ on the line only compounds this issue and calls into question the motivations behind some of these decisions.

I think disc golf as a whole is doing a pretty good job on standardizing rules, targets and discs thanks in large part to the PDGA.

 

[Dave242]

I am a firm believer that the currently growing access to online resources (for example, this thread) will use video evidence to expose players who foul frequently. HD photography is enabling this.

This will raise awareness among the general player base and give the potential to create poor reputations for players who refuse to follow the rules. What we are doing here is part of something that has power to cause the change that you observe is needed.

I haven't read this entire thing, but did anybody mention Wysocki's foot fault on his last putt?

Good catch. Certainly looks like he steps past his lie before establishing balance.

Maybe we should start a "Foot Fault Watchdog" thread to post videos and still pictures of stance violations. Those of us who care about the integrity of the rules could bring awareness there.....and those of us who want to create and discuss drama queen conspiracy can do so in threads like this one we are in now.

The Foot Fault Watchdog thread could be a good training ground for the volunteer task force JTacoma is talking about creating.

 

[wake911]

that little side step turned in to a forward step past his lie

I know normally (not commenting on this exact instant) he starts his "off foot" about 6-12" behind his line. That way he can take a 3-6" step with his foot, without going over his lie.

I've started doing the same thing, and have had a few comments as well about the step. It looks REALLY bad like a foot fault, since we are all used to not moving either foot toward the hole, except on a jump/step-thru putt. But I land at least 6" behind the "foot fault line" when I do it, so not even close to a foot fault. But from a distance, and a bad angle, i can definitely see it looking like a foot fault.
It does provide more power than a normal straddle putt, i'm REALLY liking putting like this (and my putting skill has increased greatly)

Good catch. Certainly looks like he steps past his lie before establishing balance.

Now, if he moves his foot to the new placement, 6" behind his lie, and then moves forward, does that constitute "Establishing balance?" i thought there was a video about putting where Chuck showed picking up mini/putting rear foot back down constituted "Establishing balance" in its own right? Seems not correct, but truly what is "establishing balance" right?

 

[Halcón]

Maybe we should start a "Foot Fault Watchdog" thread to post videos and still pictures of stance violations. Those of us who care about the integrity of the rules could bring awareness there...

The Foot Fault Watchdog thread could be a good training ground for the volunteer task force JTacoma is talking about creating.

Count me in.
:thmbup:

 

[Pwingles]

I overheard GG talking to some of the other top pros this weekend. The conversation was something along the lines of you need to call foot faults, even if the throw is bad, because otherwise you are letting the other guy cheat. That leads me to beleive that GG has no problem being called on a foot fault himself.

Paging NOS...

We're in need of an ignorant comment to the contrary, whenever you have time, thatd be great...

 

[Big Nasty]

nearly 400 posts about Nikko making a legit call and analyzing a handshake? really? you all need to go practice your putting or something.

 

[Agricolae]

... i thought there was a video about putting where Chuck showed picking up mini/putting rear foot back down constituted "Establishing balance" in its own right? Seems not correct, but truly what is "establishing balance" right?

Here you go. All of the internet marshalls can have fun with this one.

Warning: Before passing judgement you'll probably want to have read the rule book and have it handy for reference. Perception is not necessarily reality when it comes to following the rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MAXxXI39Zw

 

[Carnavas]

I see Nikko was the only adult in that group. The others were immature, childish, and an embarrassment to the sport of disc golf. No professionalism at all, this may as well been the conduct of drunk league night competitors.

>implying that the others saw it

 

[ScottyLove]

Here you go. All of the internet marshalls can have fun with this one.

Warning: Before passing judgement you'll probably want to have read the rule book and have it handy for reference. Perception is not necessarily reality when it comes to following the rules.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MAXxXI39Zw

Was there no sound on any of those except for the very end?

And are all of these considered violations? Just looking for some explanation for each example and thought maybe it was in the missing audio. A couple of them look good, but curious.

 

[rd.bittle]

nearly 400 posts about Nikko making a legit call and analyzing a handshake? really? you all need to go practice your putting or something.

But we're awesome at analyzing everything. We are experts.

 

[Dave242]

Was there no sound on any of those except for the very end?

And are all of these considered violations? Just looking for some explanation for each example and thought maybe it was in the missing audio. A couple of them look good, but curious.

I think this was something Chuck put together to demonstrate a whole host of scenarios on how a player could move relative to their lie and the stance rules. Looks like it was maybe done for the PDGA Board of Directors and/or Rules Committee. Some are legal, some are illegal, some are far-fetched, some are hilarious.

I think it would make a good test for us Internet Marshalls (love the term, Agricolae!)

 

[nolangherity]

man if i showed up to kaposia and saw that putting display id probably have to leave

what a headache

 

[Agricolae]

Was there no sound on any of those except for the very end?

And are all of these considered violations? Just looking for some explanation for each example and thought maybe it was in the missing audio. A couple of them look good, but curious.

To answer the questions: As I remember, there was no sound; most are NOT violations but some are; Chuck Kennedy posted that even the rules commission were not unanimous on some of the borderline cases. Chuck's video was to get everyone to READ the rulebook and interpret each case based on the RULES, not whether it looked different or funky or ridiculous. I have used that "Crane Putt" (could be called the backwards step putt) a few times. It's legal. Problem is, very few people want to believe it's legal.

Ok, "Major Violation" on me for flagrant thread-jacking. Apologies. But I kept thinking about this video that Chuck put together a year or so ago while reading some people's interpretation of stance rules. Wake911 showed in his post that I was not the only one who remembered Chuck's video.

Here's the original post ... I think ... I've not re-read it recently.

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48621&highlight=putting+video+rules

It has everything to do with the rules for putting stance violations and much less to do with this thread. Again, apologies for the thread-jack. Maybe someone will want to revive the old thread or start a new one.

 

[grodney]

Good catch. Certainly looks like he steps past his lie before establishing balance.

Not to me.

 

[Dave242]

What are you seeing that makes it look good to you? Even when you factor in that the "line" at the back of the mini is technically an arc (white) and not a straight line (yellow)....since distance from the pin is measured as a radius. This diagram might be a little off, but not enough off to even make it borderline:

Granted, getting perspectives and angles from photography/videography is not a good idea for official uses (and it is not admissible for PDGA officiating).

 

[Toro71]

What are you seeing that makes it look good to you? Even when you factor in that the "line" at the back of the mini is technically an arc (white) and not a straight line (yellow)....since distance from the pin is measured as a radius. This diagram might be a little off, but not enough off to even make it borderline:

Granted, getting perspectives and angles from photography/videography is not a good idea for official uses (and it is not admissible for PDGA officiating).

Looks like Nikko was eyeballing the crap out of his feet, so, at least HE thought it was good.

 

[bhuff]

Did someone second Nikko? I didn't think it was that bad but at that level if two people called it sorry GG

I was standing 15 feet from GG when he was making the shot and I dind't think it looked like a foot fault. Nikko even said "look you can see your pivot" in which case his pivot was still behind the corner of the disc in line with the basket. He may not be in line with the fairway, but he is in line with the basket which is up that fairway to the left.... Feldberg seconded the call. I was talking with Feldberg as they were all putting out on that hole and he said he wasn't going to call him on it but since his own teamate called him on it that he might as well second it...But then again feldberg and nikko are pretty good pals...

 

[Toro71]

^^at first before reading the post, I thought the yellow line in the vid still above was supposed to be Nikko's foot fault indicating lazer vision.

 

[NOStheBOSS]

What are you seeing that makes it look good to you? Even when you factor in that the "line" at the back of the mini is technically an arc (white) and not a straight line (yellow)....since distance from the pin is measured as a radius. This diagram might be a little off, but not enough off to even make it borderline:

Granted, getting perspectives and angles from photography/videography is not a good idea for official uses (and it is not admissible for PDGA officiating).

That picture proves nothing, there's no way you can tell from video evidence. Often times they look very different than they would if you were actually there.

Since does the side step on every single putt, I would be very slow to assume that he foot faulted on a routine putt