PDGA Tournament Option

[jcrab66]

We all have a finite entertainment budget

Based on alot of posts around this place I think it's safe to say this isn't true. Fiscal irresponsibility is rampant amongst purveyors of this sport if this board is any indication, now back to your regular scheduled programming

 

[ejvogie]

Based on alot of posts around this place I think it's safe to say this isn't true. Fiscal irresponsibility is rampant amongst purveyors of this sport if this board is any indication, now back to your regular scheduled programming

I'd say he's right, it's just a matter of what else we're NOT paying (mortgage, utilities, groceries, etc...)

 

[reposado]

But since the players pack items are purchased wholesale. The options are really.

1. 40$ entry. 15$ players pack

2. 35$ entry. No pack. (Estimate.) Maybe its 30. Not 25 though

 

[JC17393]

But since the players pack items are purchased wholesale. The options are really.

1. 40$ entry. 15$ players pack

2. 35$ entry. No pack. (Estimate.) Maybe its 30. Not 25 though

Items may be purchased wholesale but they absolutely should be valued at retail, hence the $25 no-pack option.

 

[reposado]

Items may be purchased wholesale but they absolutely should be valued at retail, ce the $25 no-pack option.

To the player it should be valued as such. But to the director cost is significant. There isn't an option to have just 25 because then the money isn't there

 

[JC17393]

To the player it should be valued as such. But to the director cost is significant. There isn't an option to have just 25 because then the money isn't there

I'm of the mind that players are going to value the disc at whatever the discount is. So if you're only offering $5 off the entry if the player forgoes his player pack, then the players that do take the disc are only going to value it at $5. Then they're going to wonder why their $35 in winnings later in the day/weekend can't buy them seven more of the player pack discs (because presumably, the payout merch is valued at retail or close to it).

I think if the TD is going to offer an opt-out on the player pack, he's got to write off the retail value of each disc he doesn't move as money he's not going to have to work with (for expenses, added cash, whatever). He can't expect players to pay the value of the retail mark-up of the disc without getting something for that cost.

 

[Horsman]

The evidence seems to be that you're completely right.

I'm not saying that TDs shouldn't give players packs. Merely that, personally, I'd prefer that they didn't, and reduced the entry fee accordingly.

One issue with this. A lot of TD's base a players pack around preregistrations, and lets say you have a bunch of people opt out of the players pack then there is a good chance that there would not be enough people that want a players pack to justify the minimum order quantity then the players that do want a custom stamped disc are SOL, and to think that atd should just eat the cost of 50 extra disc is just wrong.

My simple solution is still the same, stop playing in event that give out players pack or move to open where there are no players packs.

 

[Harrishabitat]

I guess here is the one thing that I am confused by... You get a full weekend of entertainment for lets say $40...which you would probably spend on a trip to the movies and dinner which would last 3-4 hours. The TD gives you free stuff and your response is to complain about it???

I've got a suggestion...if you don't like the players pack give it to a kid at the event, throw it in as a CTP or other prize and say thank you for a full weekend of entertainment for such a low price.

I personally think it's one of the rudest things in the world to expect the rules adjusted just for you because you don't like the way they are running things... and yes that is a sense of entitlement and it's pathetic.

If the TD want's to do that, then fine, but anyone that would have the guts to ask for a reduced fee because you don't want it needs to flogged...but then again that's just my opinion.

 

[Rob Martin]

Good afternoon.

Thank you DavidSauls and Allurex. You explain my thoughts well.

Kind of seems like this thread is kind of like politics and religion. People have a lot of opinions.

 

[DavidSauls]

My simple solution is still the same, stop playing in event that give out players pack or move to open where there are no players packs.

I NEVER said I don't like players packs. I never said TDs shouldn't give players packs. I ONLY said I'd personally prefer a lower entry/no players pack system. Not an option for me---but a tournament run on this basis.

I also said that I know I'm in a minority. And that's fine with me.

 

[DavidSauls]

I personally think it's one of the rudest things in the world to expect the rules adjusted just for you because you don't like the way they are running things... and yes that is a sense of entitlement and it's pathetic.

If the TD want's to do that, then fine, but anyone that would have the guts to ask for a reduced fee because you don't want it needs to flogged...but then again that's just my opinion.

Of course, NOBODY has suggested any such thing.

At no point, as far as I can tell, has anyone since the O.P. suggested a separate rule or option for themselves. Included, and especially, me.

 

[Harrishabitat]

Of course, NOBODY has suggested any such thing.

At no point, as far as I can tell, has anyone since the O.P. suggested a separate rule or option for themselves. Included, and especially, me.

Did I quote you or call you out by name? No I referring to the OP and any other random people that feel that same way

 

[DavidSauls]

My apologies, then.

And agreement.

 

[ScottyLove]

My simple solution is still the same, stop playing in event that give out players pack or move to open where there are no players packs.

Agreed.... but I'll also say in every event we run, pros get the same player pack. At the tour finale, that was a one of a kind 3-D mini, long sleeve dry-fit shirt, top shelf shammy, and a disc OF YOUR CHOICE...

So no discrimination against the pros... everyone gets treated the same.

 

[bombmk]

It might be my european sports upbringing that shines through, but generally I have problems acceptng that I HAVE to pay anything to play organized disc golf once I have payed my PDGA membership.

The idea that people would not play if there was nothing to play for is disproved weekend after weekend in other sports - at least around these parts. Soccer, handball, badminton, tennis - you have it. Played by tons of people with no other objective than playing their sport in an organised and competetive setting. No real long term goal, trophy or prizes in sight unless you are in the top 5% of the sport. But still under the umbrella of the governing body of their sport.

The current organisation limits the options/potential of offering organized play. If you want to bring more people in under the PDGA umbrella it is the the absolutely worst way to go about it.

If I wanted to run a PDGA santioned tournament with no entry fee (for PDGA members) - why should that not be possible without there being additional PDGA fees to pay?

Thats not entitlement - thats me wondering why I have to pay a membership and then pay again to make that membership meaningful.

That being said I understand:
That TDs are going to have expenses.
Some people like to play for money.
TDs would of course always have the right to charge more for whatever reason.

 

[DavidSauls]

@bombmk

You're mixing in paying to enter an organized event, and the event paying out to entrants, as either players packs or prize payouts.

For the latter, I agree in principle. I wish disc golf had evolved differently. Despite which, there are some merits to the system.

As for paying to play in an organized event, around here almost any organized sporting event you want to compete in, you have to pay an entry fee. That's roadraces or softball or tennis or anything else that comes to mind. Separate from any national organization you may be part of.

 

[DavidSauls]

If I wanted to run a PDGA santioned tournament with no entry fee (for PDGA members) - why should that not be possible without there being additional PDGA fees to pay?

Because that's part of the PDGA financial structure, to pay for paid staff, a headquarters, insurance for a thousand events, worlds, and the rest. Membership fees alone wouldn't nearly cover it. You could argue for a stripped-down version of the PDGA that didn't do nearly as much, and was funded only by membership fees, of course, but then there'd be a question of why sanction events at all?

So players pay a membership fee for part of the cost, and pay tournament fees for the rest.

In a world where your $50 membership bought you unlimited entries into PDGA-sanctioned tournaments, why would I, as a TD, want to sanction any tournaments? Where would the money come from the cover my expenses?

 

[DavidSauls]

Thats not entitlement - thats me wondering why I have to pay a membership and then pay again to make that membership meaningful.

Apologies for the verbose replies. Simply speaking:

Your membership only covers a fraction of the cost of operating the PDGA and the tournaments you want to play in.

 

[scarpfish]

Your membership only covers a fraction of the cost of operating the PDGA and the tournaments you want to play in.

Membership fees and tournament fees are the overwhelming majority of the PDGA's revenue (according to this report almost 90% of it). The only way that they could make it off one or the other is to significantly increase the other. I would suspect in any organization where you could play for free after paying your membership, that membership fee would be significantly higher.

$85/$125 PDGA memberships anyone? $20 per event fee for non-members? Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[bombmk]

In a world where your $50 membership bought you unlimited entries into PDGA-sanctioned tournaments, why would I, as a TD, want to sanction any tournaments? Where would the money come from the cover my expenses?

From the entrance fees. I am not against entrance fees.

I am against the deliberate and more or less forced monetarization of organized disc golf, which right now is more akin to a pyramid scheme than a professional sport.