Pros and cons of PDGA league

[Dingus]

Thinking of starting a league. Anybody have any advice on whether PDGA sanctioning is worthwhile for a league? I like the idea of getting a rating out of it, but how much extra hassle is it?

 

[ThrowBot]

SANCTIONING LEAGUES

Pros:
+Players might like getting extra rated rounds.
+Trackable stats.

Cons:
-Ratings for locals will be lower if the league doesn't draw traveling players who are unfamiliar with the course. (I've demonstrated this elsewhere; it's real.)
-Nominal fee to the PDGA.
-Extra paperwork/rules for the LD.

Other Thoughts:
It's really a question of what you want for the league. If you are struggling to attract players, or want "more serious" players, then sanctioned rounds might help.

On the other hand, if you have a good group of friendly players who like the low level of competitive play (tags, small cash, ace pot) then the Sanctioned League isn't necessarily a value add. It's extra cost -- Yes, small extra cost, but everyone values their time and cash differently -- and the extra value may not be there for some players.

I've played both styles and I'd lean towards unsanctioned...but a sanctioned league wouldn't scare me away as a player. That's just my speed; everyone can make their own choices. If I'm running a league [ever again] it will certainly be un-rated.

 

[Dingus]

.)
-Nominal fee to the PDGA.
-Extra paperwork/rules for the LD..

Wow amazing write up, thank you for taking the time!

Would you mind giving details on this aspect? I am specifically worried about the paperwork and the rules for divisions. Like if I get a handful of players and they want to play MPO, ADV, INT, and Masters, do I have to accommodate them with two players in a division or can I consolidate?

 

[ThrowBot]

If I get a handful of players and they want to play MPO, ADV, INT, and Masters, do I have to accommodate them with two players in a division or can I consolidate?

We have reached beyond the limit of my experience. I have played in sanctioned leagues, but I haven't run them.

A rule of thumb that I've seen: it takes 3 players to make a division. I'm not sure if that's at the discretion of a TD, LD, or if that's a grumpy [wise] person deciding what's what. But I'm OK with it.

 

[txmxer]

You really have to decide your purpose for the league. In my limited experience, running a non sanctioned league is easier. PDGA members will play a non sanctioned league i if it is fun.

If you have a reasonably large contingent of PDGA members looking for a league, then you can do that, but they will be a lot more intense. There will be expectations.

 

[DavidSauls]

Wow amazing write up, thank you for taking the time!

Would you mind giving details on this aspect? I am specifically worried about the paperwork and the rules for divisions. Like if I get a handful of players and they want to play MPO, ADV, INT, and Masters, do I have to accommodate them with two players in a division or can I consolidate?

I'd assume that works just like a tournament -- which is, you only have to offer the divisions you want to, as long as you announce them in advance.

Though if it's non-sanctioned, you can go a step further and create your own divisions thresholds, or have bump rules and exceptions, as you see fit. Which is a double-edged sword; you also don't have the PDGA rules to back you when someone whines for an exception.

 

[autocrosscrx]

At least around here, people playing sanctioned leagues also expect layouts beforehand. This doesn't have to be a big deal, (Hey guys, all divisions/all shorts) but it is an extra step.

One plus, potentially, is that sanctioned leagues tend to draw a lot less players. So you don't have to deal with turning away people that built their day or work week around playing your league. And less waiting at the end.

 

[biscoe]

It depends on your goals for the league. Who is your target customer? I don't like PDGA leagues. IMO they cater to the "already hooked" crowd rather than serving what I consider to be the true purpose of leagues which is providing a somewhat organized introduction/learning experience for new players in a comfortable environment.

They are also ratings killers for better players- lots of the pros in this area will not play them for that reason alone. I personally have always looked at my playing in leagues as a bit of organized practice with a chance to teach some people the game- I certainly don't need the results factored into my "permanent record."

Several years ago the NOVA Club ran leagues where players could choose whether to opt in or out of the PDGA part. IMO this was a fantastic middle ground but the PDGA shut that option down.

While I am at it- the idea that points earned playing in MA4 (or any division really) in leagues can serve to qualify you for the very highest level of competition in MA1 is ridiculous.

 

[MikeK]

Around my neck of the woods, PDGA leagues have been very successful. They're not that much extra work or extra cost.

The most work is the first week of the league when most players sign up; it does take a little time to enter players' PDGA numbers into the program. Seems like about an hour extra work the first week, then just a few minutes after that each week. With PDGA live scoring, it cuts down work entering scores too.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Wow amazing write up, thank you for taking the time!

Would you mind giving details on this aspect? I am specifically worried about the paperwork and the rules for divisions. Like if I get a handful of players and they want to play MPO, ADV, INT, and Masters, do I have to accommodate them with two players in a division or can I consolidate?

If nothing has changed in the past couple of years - there is an up front $25 fee, and then a $0.50 fee per player throughout the league session. The PDGA recommends you take $1.00 out per player, with $0.50 going to the PDGA and $0.50 going to operating costs/to the club. I usually just considered the second half of the dollar a reimbursement for the up-front $25 fee.

Paperwork is minimal, its really just filling in the blanks on a form on the PDGA site now, it really isn't much more than making sure PDGA#s/names are in line with what the PDGA has on file and making sure the layouts played are correct.

As for the part regarding "rules" in the extra paperwork/rules - I would assume that's just the little stuff like "no music" and "must use a mini" and such.

 

[Dingus]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

The specific context of my league is that I don't have a large group of players and it is a course that doesn't get a lot of play. I would need to build it from the ground up. I really just want to pick a format that will make it easier to grow past the critical mass where you always have a competitive card in two divisions every week

 

[ToddL]

League payout and placement does not necessarily have to follow the PDGA event results. You can cram everyone in MA1 on PDGA but then pay them out from your own divisions. Or cram everyone in MA1 on PDGA but use handicap scoring for your actual payout/placement.

 

[ru4por]

League payout and placement does not necessarily have to follow the PDGA event results. You can cram everyone in MA1 on PDGA but then pay them out from your own divisions. Or cram everyone in MA1 on PDGA but use handicap scoring for your actual payout/placement.

This, of course can gives your league players the advantage of MA1 points per the PDGA points factor table.

https://www.pdga.com/files/4_-_2022_player_division_grid_-table_5_v12.pdf

Many players are interested in playing sanctioned leagues to accumulate points for invites to Worlds.

 

[@CD-]

It depends on your goals for the league. Who is your target customer? I don't like PDGA leagues. IMO they cater to the "already hooked" crowd rather than serving what I consider to be the true purpose of leagues which is providing a somewhat organized introduction/learning experience for new players in a comfortable environment.

They are also ratings killers for better players- lots of the pros in this area will not play them for that reason alone. I personally have always looked at my playing in leagues as a bit of organized practice with a chance to teach some people the game- I certainly don't need the results factored into my "permanent record."

Several years ago the NOVA Club ran leagues where players could choose whether to opt in or out of the PDGA part. IMO this was a fantastic middle ground but the PDGA shut that option down.

While I am at it- the idea that points earned playing in MA4 (or any division really) in leagues can serve to qualify you for the very highest level of competition in MA1 is ridiculous.

At least around here, people playing sanctioned leagues also expect layouts beforehand. This doesn't have to be a big deal, (Hey guys, all divisions/all shorts) but it is an extra step.

One plus, potentially, is that sanctioned leagues tend to draw a lot less players. So you don't have to deal with turning away people that built their day or work week around playing your league. And less waiting at the end.

Weekday PDGA leagues give players an opportunity to play rated rounds when they are normally working/busy/unable to get into weekend PDGA tournaments. Cheap rated rounds relative to a tournament without all the extras. No mandate to have a PDGA membership so non-members/newer players can get an idea what their rating might be before joining.

KC has a 'roaming' PDGA league which hits up most of the courses in town. Usually scheduled to align with playing the tournament layouts the week or two before the weekend tournaments to give players a chance at 1 more rated round on a layout (mostly comparable to the tournament results as well, I found it around 8-15pts lower rated for the same scores normally under different playing conditions). There are also plenty of weekday non-sanctioned leagues to fulfill that demand at each course individually though.

Could try a PDGA sanctioned 8-10 week session in mid-summer and have shorter non-sanctioned sessions surrounding it to gauge attendance/demand and avoid running out of daylight during rated rounds.

 

[dmoore1998]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

The specific context of my league is that I don't have a large group of players and it is a course that doesn't get a lot of play. I would need to build it from the ground up. I really just want to pick a format that will make it easier to grow past the critical mass where you always have a competitive card in two divisions every week

To me, this sounds pretty squarely in "unsanctioned league" as the best option. You're going to want to attract a number of new players to your course...in my experience non-sanctioned means bigger turnout, randoms more likely to show up and give it a try, etc. I know that in our league, which gets about 40 folks on a small-town course if I said "Hey, there's this new league, let's go try it next week". I could probably get 10-15 to go to an unsanctioned league for fun, and maybe 2-3 to go for a sanctioned league.

It feels like sanctioned leagues are more for folks with a specific player base who actively want it...and absent that all others fall into the "just do unsanctioned".

 

[ray1970]

I prefer to play in non sanctioned leagues. I like the more laid back atmosphere and knowing I can get a little risky with my play trying to win without it hurting my rating.

I prefer tournament play for my sanctioned rounds knowing I only have to stay focused and perform well for just two or three rounds in a short period of time. I don't want to have to play rated rounds week after week in a league.

I only play amateur divisions so I'm only playing for bragging rights anyways.

 

[BillFleming]

Sanctioned leagues/tournaments: Stickler for rules
Unsanctioned leagues/tournaments: not so rule oriented

I know someone who will only play unsanctioned events because they want to be able to flip their disc to mark their lie and "tap" the chains with the disc on "tap in" distances. Some people prefer the casual rules of unsanctioned events and that's okay. You just need to figure out which group would most likely show up to your events - the "abide" by the rules group or the "rules are flexible" group.

 

[R-Ogre]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the biggest benefit to non-sanctioned leagues.

 

[dmoore1998]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the biggest benefit to non-sanctioned leagues.

Getting drunk and smoking weed?

 

[biscoe]

Getting drunk and smoking weed?

Alcohol is allowed in sanctioned leagues if allowed on the property. I personally see no reason why the rules should be different for leagues than anything else if the rounds are going to be "real."