Re-doing my form, stand still putting, critique welcome.

[danostrowski]

Disaster of practice today. Had 4+ things in my head and couldn't get a handle on any of it.

This is not the best and not the worst of my throws, but it highlights some problems.

Shoulders definitely too high. I'm leaning into the hit, which I THINK may be because I start my rotation too late? I dunno. Maybe I'm just off balance and I need to work on the balance.

You can see that hand drop anhyzer on the 2nd to last frame, as usual.

I think if I can get the shoulders lowered it will help/solve my grip problems. The disc seems to come in too close to my body, too, and I think it's because my right shoulder is all scrunched up and not loose enough.

Also, keeping the shoulder lose and farther from the body will probably solve that "release to the right" persistent problem I have.

... any tips for attacking that?

I'm almost starting to think I need to go back to stand still for a bit, then come back to a full swing.

Video is still processing, let me know if it doesn't show up for you guys.

 

[danostrowski]

I'm also not getting out of the way of the disc by clearing my right hip during the swing. That would help, immensely.

 

[sidewinder22]

You hit your max backswing early, so you are dragging the disc forward losing acceleration and rhythm. You extend your rear knee and hip before you plant the front foot so you can't clear out of the way and leverage the hips to turn the torso and shoulders. Squat the rear leg more as you plant. You also need to get the disc closer to the right pec/elbow forward of the shoulder and keep your upper arm further away from the chest. I'd practice right pec/closed shoulder drill from the hershyzer position.

 

[danostrowski]

You hit your max backswing early, so you are dragging the disc forward losing acceleration and rhythm.

Man that's so true. I didn't even think of that, but I knew something was wrong, there, thanks!

You extend your rear knee and hip before you plant the front foot so you can't clear out of the way and leverage the hips to turn the torso and shoulders. Squat the rear leg more as you plant.

Hm. The odd thing is that when I watch, like, "lead card driving" ... the guys' back legs are already spent by the time the plant happens. AFTER the plant, the back leg just kind of falls away as they clear their right hip.

I see they're definitely using the ground, as you said, and pushing forward BEFORE the plant, and I think I'm still not doing that ... but trying to push with the rear foot after the plant happens seems awkward every time I try it.

They do seem to get maybe a little rotational push with the back leg after the plant, is that what you're talking about? Doesn't look like much but probably makes a difference.

You also need to get the disc closer to the right pec/elbow forward of the shoulder and keep your upper arm further away from the chest. I'd practice right pec/closed shoulder drill from the hershyzer position.

Yeah, that's pretty clear from the photos isn't it? haha. Oh, christ this is going to be a battle. I feel like I have SUCH bad muscle memory around that part of the throw.

Every time I feel like I'm getting better, I have a day like this where everything falls apart. Oh well, next time I'll review the thread prior and do some drills.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hm. The odd thing is that when I watch, like, "lead card driving" ... the guys' back legs are already spent by the time the plant happens. AFTER the plant, the back leg just kind of falls away as they clear their right hip.

I see they're definitely using the ground, as you said, and pushing forward BEFORE the plant, and I think I'm still not doing that ... but trying to push with the rear foot after the plant happens seems awkward every time I try it.

They do seem to get maybe a little rotational push with the back leg after the plant, is that what you're talking about? Doesn't look like much but probably makes a difference.

Maybe I didn't word that part quite right and the timing of it depends on how fast you move forward. Watch any top pro, the leverage from the rear leg is completely different from yours. You extend your rear knee and hip while you are still coming down to plant, while the pros increase flex. If you watch closely in the Hershyzer drill at 4:24-4:26 my rear knee is flexed and firing toward the target to initiate the throw from the instep of my rear foot with plantar flexion.

Watch how balanced Espen is during the x-step perfectly upright, then loads/squats into the rear hip/leg coming down to plant and increases the flex in the rear knee and fires it target ward along with the rest of the body. When you are in the x-step you still leaning away from the target and your knee/hip never increases the flex.


Even at full speed Wiggins maintains flex in the rear knee:

 

[danostrowski]

Gotcha, makes sense. That's kinda what I thought you meant, thanks for clarifying.

 

[danostrowski]

So, today I did a quick practice focused on trying to pull the close side of the disc in towards my pec during release, to fight that anyhyzer flip I get.



This was one of my best throws and it's plain as day: I'm "shrugging" my shoulder during the throw. This brings my arm, elbow and shoulder off plane for like 1/8th of the throw, right where the disc flips.

I need to focus on bringing it to my pec, yes, but I have GOT to take that shoulder hitch out of my throw or my quest for greatness and glory will never succeed.

... as always, I'm about 2 form problems from being a pro, I think.

 

[sidewinder22]

Keep your shoulder under your head(head out of the way), shoulders more vertical. That should get you more turn and whip forward rather than around. You also aren't getting off the rear leg, so your weight is back.

 

[danostrowski]

Keep your shoulder under your head(head out of the way), shoulders more vertical. That should get you more turn and whip forward rather than around.

Yup. Now that I've seen it in the video, I know how to correct it. Just more practice so I can work on the muscle memory for it.

You also aren't getting off the rear leg, so your weight is back.

Oh, yeah, I know. I wasn't really working on weight or feet or anything, I was focusing on the pull. I really could have... should have been... working on just the closed shoulder snap drill, but for some stupid reason I decided to add a little rotation into it.

My next set of practices, after I am releasing more cleanly, is run up with improved balance, keeping the weight inside my feet, and getting more leverage in the turn from the back foot so I can generate better force.

All things you've mentioned before.

 

[danostrowski]

This is going to be more nefarious to fix than I thought. I can't really tell, when throwing, if I'm actually doing this shoulder shrug thing. I have to watch on video.

After 40 really frustrating throws, today, I finally got a formula for how to attack this:

- Shoulders low, clear of neck.
- Keep disc flipped "upward" as far as possible.
- Pull further out away from body, like I'm pulling it in towards my bicep.

Unfortunately, even at the end, I wasn't all that great at correcting it, this is one of my better pulls, but not the best:



That shoulder shrug habit is insidious.

(And yes, I know my legs still kind of look like stilts in the run up and all that. Another day, another battle, etc.)

 

[danostrowski]

P.S. In that Brinster video, it's almost like his hips are open/up and his shoulder is slightly down. I wonder if I should try that.

 

[danostrowski]

P. P. S. It seems that maybe I lead my rotation with my shoulder, instead of my hips, having the effect of scrunching my shoulders and tilting them forward. It's hard to tell without the side view, but I think that's happening and I could keep the disc more clear of my body by leading more with the hips.

In addition, I think I might POSSIBLY bring the disc a little bit further away from my body during the backswing, but ... maybe not. Maybe it's just I need to get my shoulder out of the way, is all.

 

[danostrowski]

Also, IS THIS EVEN A PROBLEM??

I'm noticing even pros have this happen during their swings. If it corrects itself, should I even be worried about this or should I just move on to my footwork?

I guess I should keep trying to work on it a little bit, because the work I've done already has made it less likely I release to the right of where I'm throwing, but at the same time maybe this is a hitch that I'll never completely fix.

 

[danostrowski]

Thinking and moving around with this, I'm more convinced I need to point my hips up and my shoulder down a bit more, like Brinster, and that would help both with my back leg, opening my stance up and not "crunching" by leading with my shoulder.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm not sure what you are talking about and a Vector is not a great disc to work with. You are still hitting your reachback too early and consequently turning forward too early before your weight transfers, and not loading/squatting into the rear leg as you move forward to plant. I'd keep the arm and disc more on plane in the reachback, swing up from under with a lower shoulder like Brinster does with some less stable discs at least until you get more arm speed/release.

 

[danostrowski]

I had just thrown all my putters and didn't want to pick 'em up, yet. Though, that throw was 320' so I'm not that off in terms of power for the disc.

I need to look at that reach back thing and compare it. I swear I'm reaching back while my front leg is going for the plant, which seems right. I'll watch some vids to try to fix the timing.

 

[danostrowski]

I see what you mean on the reachback. Man. Gonna be hard to change that timing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yep, it's still the move or transition. When you watch any top pro, they don't quite hit their max reach back until the front toes land as the rotational axis moves/transfers to the front leg. Their shoulder and core are wound up much further or loaded when the front foot lands.

 

[danostrowski]

P.S. I appreciate you're still reading this, even though I'm the slowest learner, ever. I'll try to wait a few sessions before posting more.

 

[sidewinder22]

Try this without a disc, standing in an athletic position(on toes, knees and hips bent, lowered center of gravity, and ready to move any direction), then bring the throwing shoulder down and back to your rear knee maintain the knee flex, your weight should be loaded/balanced on the rear leg to move back forward. The elbow should be over and back past the knee. Your rear glute will start to burn if you hold that right.