"Engage or Fire the Hips" makes me cringe every time I hear it.This is actually kind of crazy. You wouldn't think immediately that a movement which everyone harps on about the legs being the majority of it would so heavily involve the spine/back.
But I can ACTUALLY feel it. I just stood up and did a sort of One Leg Drill and just felt which parts of my body actually worked to make that happen. Sure enough, it was the lower back acting on the spine.
So now I raise the question: are lower-back (and general back/core) exercises the key to eking out that extra power and preventing injury?
1. By "torso stretch", do you mean the rotational difference between the shoulders and the hips?The core powers the swing. Weightshift and lag/inertia stretches the core...
...The purpose of a run-up is to increase the torso stretch
6. Does the second sentence of the quote above imply that the rear side is passive, or merely along for the ride?Stand on front leg only and feel how your front glute pulls everything else thru for a BH throw. The rearside gets pulled thru by the frontside into the finish.
(Stack of questions 1-7)
3. Please don't "clench." It should be a consequence of posture/balance/sequencing/weight shift heading into the plant... If you do that correctly it will load/unload the core/slings. See also "myotatic reflex". If you muscle up/rush things, you can't naturally stretch muscles with the right mechanics, and you lose a ton of power in the throw.
Your backswing is braced against the drive (rear) leg & your swing is braced against the plant (front) leg.
Where is the trapped momentum going? It can't simply disappear (due to conservation of energy), so the linear momentum of the whole body must be transferred *somewhere*, and maybe knowing exactly where this is would be enlightening for me.4. I'm interested in what others say, but off the cuff I think the brace is transiently trapping momentum & transferring force up thru the chain from the ground.
I'm doing this pretty continually hahaAnd don't be surprised if you re-evaluate the concepts over and over - that's healthy. It's a pretty complex move.
New way of thinking that I'm asking about: Purpose of the brace is unrelated to turning linear momentum into rotational momentum. In fact, linear momentum is NOT translated directly into rotational momentum at all. Instead, linear momentum is somehow used to store energy in our core muscles by pre-stretching them, and then the contracting or unstretching of these core muscles is used rotate the right shoulder about the axis of rotation. The left side is simply dragged along by the right shoulder.
Brychanus answered pretty well.1. By "torso stretch", do you mean the rotational difference between the shoulders and the hips?
2. When you say "the core powers the swing", are you saying that the core muscles, in aggregate, are functionally a rotational spring that gets wound during the backswing and then unwinds to sling the disc? And the primary purpose of the run-up and weightshift is to coil that rotational spring between the hips and shoulders?
3. Should I be clenching the heck out of my abs/core muscles after my left foot hits the ground (2nd to last step), so that the backswing builds tension in my "rotational spring"? Up to this point I've been pretty loose in the core, in order to facilitate more coiling of my shoulders relative to my hips, and in order to prevent any muscle tension from subconsciously propagating out to my arm. But it sounds like this looseness is stopping me from properly storing tension in my "spring"?
4. I had previously thought that the brace should be *adding* power to the swing by converting linear momentum into rotational acceleration (kinda like if you were sliding forward on ice and your right hip hit something, causing you to spin out). Is there nothing of this sort happening?
5. Rather than saying what I said in #4, would it be more accurate to say that all of the energy that we're gaining from our disc golf run-up has already been stored in our core muscles by the time the brace happens, and the brace is just giving our wound-up core muscles an anchor to pull against? (the anchor being the front glute, per the first sentence of the quote below?)
6. Does the second sentence of the quote above imply that the rear side is passive, or merely along for the ride?
7. I watched your double dragon video. Is the takeaway from the can-can drill that our hips should start their forward rotation because they are pulled by the weight of our front leg swinging forwards? I thought that this was "shifting in front", which is bad? :doh: very confused
Sorry for the deluge of questions. I'm reevaluating my entire concept of how we power the throw here
7. The takeaway is to learn uninhibited motion and stop thinking.
I'll try some of these:
4. I'm interested in what others say, but off the cuff I think the brace is transiently trapping momentum & transferring force up thru the chain from the ground. The rotation is a consequence of the posture/balance/sequencing entering the plant/brace. "Adding" is where I might disagree - it's just facilitating the conversion of linear force to rotation, and transmitting force up from the ground.
That's helpful. I might distinguish the brace from the plant leg pogo action/kick though. I usually think of the "brace" as that abstract and transient structure from the ground up that forms across the body and that you swing against/behind. The plant leg is also pumping against the ground, which adds force like I think you/Dr. Kwon are saying.
Noted about the hip hinge vs squat distinction.
Would you say that I'm on the right track with the emphasis on getting the lead leg to swing wide of the hips before the plant? Both to create horizontal leverage of the right femur against the right hip socket, and to give the hips room to rotate?
Whether as a part of the ground-up power chain or as more of a result of other parts of the throw, all big throwers seem to get a noticeable hip turn. As far as I can tell, the hips either have to rotate above the right femur (which I'm currently thinking would be wrong), or moreso into the right femur from behind (like a baseball pitcher), which would require that hip to be open to begin with.
To achieve the proper feeling, squat low. Like really low, so your thighs are almost parallel to the ground. If you're used to just walking on top of straight legs, then even achieving Paul's normal 45 degree angle between his thigh and the ground will *feel* like you're squatting ridiculously low.
It's almost impossible to tilt the wrong way. All kinds of great feedback from this position.