Rocking the Hips

[SuperWookie]

I absolutely guarantee that if you stand up and just 'rock' the hips and keep your lead arm totally loose, you will start lifting your heels to generate more swing in your arm. You will crush the can automatically if you keep everything connected naturally. Then, just start incorporating some of the ideas you no doubt have heard. Keep doing the same basic stuff, but start playing with your posture to figure out how to keep a > 90 degree angle in your upper arm to your torso.

Then, do the hard part and forget that you 'can' throw a disc with your silly arm muscles, and start really believing in this new way of moving, and you'll see lol.

So this is something I'm still not sure about. What exactly does ROCKING the hips even mean? I've been reading this post and trying to follow along, and understanding large parts of it, but not everything. And I'm still just not understanding what you guys mean by rocking the hips. Is there a video or gif you can post of someone just DOING this rocking the hips motion, WITHOUT a disc golf swing attached to it? That would help a lot.

But I like this idea of just spending more time figuring out HOW to rock my hips, with my lead arm loose, and trying to create momentum and speed in my arm WITHOUT TRYING to pull it. I think that is something I need to spend way more time on (trying to feel this stuff in my body without actually throwing a disc), and less time throwing and practicing throwing. Just everyday, spend 10-30 mins working on chasing this "feeling" you and others are describing, until I get it. Then start adding the disc back in.

 

[seedlings]

So this is something I'm still not sure about. What exactly does ROCKING the hips even mean? I've been reading this post and trying to follow along, and understanding large parts of it, but not everything. And I'm still just not understanding what you guys mean by rocking the hips. Is there a video or gif you can post of someone just DOING this rocking the hips motion, WITHOUT a disc golf swing attached to it? That would help a lot.

But I like this idea of just spending more time figuring out HOW to rock my hips, with my lead arm loose, and trying to create momentum and speed in my arm WITHOUT TRYING to pull it. I think that is something I need to spend way more time on (trying to feel this stuff in my body without actually throwing a disc), and less time throwing and practicing throwing. Just everyday, spend 10-30 mins working on chasing this "feeling" you and others are describing, until I get it. Then start adding the disc back in.

Get two armfuls of groceries and close your car door with your hip... with your car parked facing downhill. That will take all of your body weight shifted to your lead hip. If you only lean your shoulders towards the door, nothing will happen.

 

[SuperWookie]

This^

The feeling of falling forward will also make you want to rush through it all faster, your body feels like it's got to catch up to stay in balance. It doesn't. Resist that urge, try to go as slow as possible whilst feeling you are falling forward. It should connect up to an easy feeling swing that sends the disc a long way without much apparent effort.

So when you say "go as slow as possible", and "resist the urge to try and catch up", do you mean the upper body and arm? Or the lower body? I'm assuming the arm/upper body.

The more I watch really good pitching videos, I think the more I understand this idea of falling forward and then as the foot finally plants, your arm is completely stretched out behind you (away from you) and is then slinged forward by all that momentum. So that's good I'm understanding that idea, haha.

But still not understanding how I can use my hips to create so much power and distance though. It always feels like in any disc golf throw that isn't a stand still, that the hips can't really do much? The forward movement of the walk up/run up, then X step, seems to take the hips out of the equation. Even in a golf, tennis, hockey swing, I don't feel my hips doing a whole lot to add power. Or at least I don't "feel" them adding power. Feels like other movements, timings and other part of the body are the keys to adding more distance or power. But this thread is obviously stating the hips ARE a big part of the throw, so still trying to figure that part out.

 

[seedlings]

So when you say "go as slow as possible", and "resist the urge to try and catch up", do you mean the upper body and arm? Or the lower body? I'm assuming the arm/upper body.

The more I watch really good pitching videos, I think the more I understand this idea of falling forward and then as the foot finally plants, your arm is completely stretched out behind you (away from you) and is then slinged forward by all that momentum. So that's good I'm understanding that idea, haha.

But still not understanding how I can use my hips to create so much power and distance though. It always feels like in any disc golf throw that isn't a stand still, that the hips can't really do much? The forward movement of the walk up/run up, then X step, seems to take the hips out of the equation. Even in a golf, tennis, hockey swing, I don't feel my hips doing a whole lot to add power. Or at least I don't "feel" them adding power. Feels like other movements, timings and other part of the body are the keys to adding more distance or power. But this thread is obviously stating the hips ARE a big part of the throw, so still trying to figure that part out.

 

[drk_evns]

This^

The feeling of falling forward will also make you want to rush through it all faster, your body feels like it's got to catch up to stay in balance. It doesn't. Resist that urge, try to go as slow as possible whilst feeling you are falling forward. It should connect up to an easy feeling swing that sends the disc a long way without much apparent effort.

Great advice. Harnessing that forward "fall" is key, and you have to go slow to get a feel for it and really capture the all of the power.

Although I am contemplating making a post on when it makes sense to stop going slow... because there is certainly a time in your form journey where it's time to start working in more speed to create distance.

I'm at a point in my throw where I'm hitting ~400 with a slow walk-up. With zero momentum, that's pretty much my maximum golf distance. Working in momentum and longer run-ups definitely makes it possible to reach out to 500+, but speeds up the whole system... impossible to do if you haven't really nailed it at a slow speed, but also necessary to reach top tier distance. It stops feeling like "slow down" is good advice. It's more about being in control of the speed rather than slowing it down.

SW recommended working the Hersh part 2 drill and just trying to keep the toes of that plant leg touching the wall as long as possible to get used to that falling feeling and staying in balance as you fall.

+1

 

[azplaya25]

I think it was mine. This 'falling forward' feeling seems to be what I'm missing. When I get my momentum moving down the teepad like that I naturally take a huge/long plant step. Not sure how to combat that except drilling.

Something I discovered recently when reading some other random form thread was the difference between swinging that leg toe down vs toe up. If you work on this toe down hip swing, you'll find that you naturally land toes first, then roll toe to heel and crush the can. If you just practice swinging that leg toe down vs toe up and look at how you're landing, you'll notice a big difference.

 

[DamonRipper]

So I have been following this thread and working on some of the thoughts. These discussions are great because certain things click for different people. :clap:

The last week or so I have been hitting much harder, and I only changed one thing. I completely quit thinking about reachback/wide rail/or anything related to the start of the throw. I just focused on being smooth, power pocket, and exploding into follow-through and as a result my timing came back in line ... and I think I am rocking the hips well without thinking about it. I need to video it, but my throw feels more like that gif of Emerson, at least much more so than it normally does. The disc is flying 30-40' further when I really nail it.

Here is my amateur analysis, am open to thoughts and discussion on this. I have always struggled with reachback. On one hand I admire the Will Schusterick super-long style reachback, and every once in a while I can really smash one doing it. Most of the time, however, I think it is causing more harm than good. The biggest being I struggle to not start the pull before the plant. I think what is happening is the long reachback does two things if your form and timing aren't on point.

1. It is easy to get you leaning back, with your COG a little back of where you want it
2. Because of the extended time/focus for the reachback, it is stupidly easy to start your pull before fully planted (not crushing the can)

For SuperWookie and others that are having trouble with pulling too soon, maybe try this and see if it helps you. Just think about the power pocket and powering through, like following through to the maximum. This, for me, put the emphasis and speed on the last part of throw where it should be. I will post more as I continue to experiment...

 

[Waddball]

I completely quit thinking about reachback/wide rail/or anything related to the start of the throw. I just focused on being smooth, power pocket, and exploding into follow-through and as a result my timing came back in line ... and I think I am rocking the hips well without thinking about it.

Sounds great! In fieldwork and a couple recent rounds, I focused on something similar. Tried to keep my upper body super loose (just vertical spine; no tilting), and just feel that slide into the brace.

I found that in standstill, feet a little wider than before, I threw better than ever. I felt the weight settle, the hips rock and then open to start everything unwinding. But I also found I have to use the wide rail or I end up way right. Distance to effort ratio notably improved, regardless of accuracy.

But with the X step, even slow, I kept rounding. I just don't know what to do with my arm if I'm not forcing the wide rail. To keep a loose pendulum, it's almost like I want to swing diagonally across with the initial step, as then the backswing naturally goes wider away (basically, forcing a figure 8). But it's unnatural, and certainly doesn't resemble anything I've seen (either advocated here or from watching good players). I think you must be right, and I'm starting my pull too soon (even though I think I'm not; feel ain't real).

 

[DamonRipper]

I need to video mine and analyze before I keep talking. But for me, not thinking about it I believe is making my reachback shorter and at the same time removing any tension ... at least that is my hypothesis. The end result is that right now I feel much more balanced and dynamic and the tendency to round is greatly reduced. Something I was doing with reachback was causing issues.

I definitely get what you are saying though, I have experimented with the reachback a lot: wide rail/simon rubber band/long ala schusterick/etc. What I am doing now is not thinking about the reachback OR the looseness/tightness of the arm. Instead my focus is purely on the hit, and whatever happens to get me to the power pocket just happens. Maybe my fundamentals are decent if I get my brain out of the way! What is interesting is that it doesn't feel like everything is loose (like doing figure 8 drills in a room) but I am feeling no tension either (like I do when rounding creeps in and can feel myself trying to muscle it). It does feel noticeably "faster" through the hit though.

 

[Nick Pacific]

I think it was mine. This 'falling forward' feeling seems to be what I'm missing. When I get my momentum moving down the teepad like that I naturally take a huge/long plant step. Not sure how to combat that except drilling.

I used to have that giant long plant step too. To fix it, I slowed down, but also most importantly, I made sure my front lead hip/butt was really turned away from the target during my backswing, and subsequently my front lead plant foot was turned in away from the target as well.

Watch some slow mo gifs of professional baseball players hitting balls to really show you this. Almost every time if you're taking a huge exaggerated last step it's because your hips are opening early and your front plant foot is open as well. That's really the only way too get that huge last step.

If you close off them hips and foot and really turn them away from the target during your backswing, like a baseball hitter getting ready to swing a bat, it will naturally and automatically shorten up that last plant foot.

 

[Nick Pacific]

I think it was mine. This 'falling forward' feeling seems to be what I'm missing. When I get my momentum moving down the teepad like that I naturally take a huge/long plant step. Not sure how to combat that except drilling.

I used to have that giant long plant step too. To fix it, I slowed down, but also most importantly, I made sure my front lead hip/butt was really turned away from the target during my backswing, and subsequently my front lead plant foot was turned in away from the target as well.

Watch some slow mo gifs of professional baseball players hitting balls to really show you this. Almost every time if you're taking a huge exaggerated last step it's because your hips are opening early and your front plant foot is open as well. That's really the only way too get that huge last step.

If you close off them hips and foot and really turn them away from the target during your backswing, like a baseball hitter getting ready to swing a bat, it will naturally and automatically shorten up that last plant foot.

This photo above (#2) really illustrates what I'm talking about. Notice how that plant foot and knee is turned inward? That automatically shortens up a previously too wide plant foot step. The reason why your plant foot is too wide is because your knee, plant foot and hips are too open and facing the target. It's literally the only way to take a giant last step. Once you close that all off and slightly turned in from the target it will shorten that last step right up.

Your timing will be all shot to hell the first time you try this but stick with it.

 

[banzai7]

Something I discovered recently when reading some other random form thread was the difference between swinging that leg toe down vs toe up. If you work on this toe down hip swing, you'll find that you naturally land toes first, then roll toe to heel and crush the can. If you just practice swinging that leg toe down vs toe up and look at how you're landing, you'll notice a big difference.

Great tip! Playing around with this feels different and better. In the original vid he talks about how these swings cause the hips to rock back and forth.

 

[banzai7]

I used to have that giant long plant step too. To fix it, I slowed down, but also most importantly, I made sure my front lead hip/butt was really turned away from the target during my backswing, and subsequently my front lead plant foot was turned in away from the target as well.

Watch some slow mo gifs of professional baseball players hitting balls to really show you this. Almost every time if you're taking a huge exaggerated last step it's because your hips are opening early and your front plant foot is open as well. That's really the only way too get that huge last step.

If you close off them hips and foot and really turn them away from the target during your backswing, like a baseball hitter getting ready to swing a bat, it will naturally and automatically shorten up that last plant foot.

Yeah I think this is a common problem. Looking at video I think it's not my problem though since I tend to plant fairly closed. I think if you turn your hips too much before your backswing you can tend to 'reach' with your foot instead of swinging your leg under and through. I don't know if that makes any sense

 

[Nick Pacific]

Yeah I think this is a common problem. Looking at video I think it's not my problem though since I tend to plant fairly closed. I think if you turn your hips too much before your backswing you can tend to 'reach' with your foot instead of swinging your leg under and through. I don't know if that makes any sense

I just go back to hitting a baseball, I literally do the exact same thing. If your slamming that front foot into the ground and really crushing the can, all that reaching goes out the window. You'll also realize the only way to effectively brace that plant foot and keep yourself from falling too far forward is getting your plant foot and knee down strong and turned in. If your knee and subsequently your front foot is open, i.e. anything past 9pm, there's no way to brace effectively enough and you'll fall forward.

This below has been VERY helpful and as someone who swung a bat decades before he swung a disc it helped me tremendously

 

[Nick Pacific]

 

[SuperWookie]

I used to have that giant long plant step too. To fix it, I slowed down, but also most importantly, I made sure my front lead hip/butt was really turned away from the target during my backswing, and subsequently my front lead plant foot was turned in away from the target as well.

Watch some slow mo gifs of professional baseball players hitting balls to really show you this. Almost every time if you're taking a huge exaggerated last step it's because your hips are opening early and your front plant foot is open as well. That's really the only way too get that huge last step.

If you close off them hips and foot and really turn them away from the target during your backswing, like a baseball hitter getting ready to swing a bat, it will naturally and automatically shorten up that last plant foot.

Good info and need to try this out.

And don't doubt this at all, but then it begs the question: how do Simon and others get such a HUGE plant step out of the X step, and still throw so far/rock the hips? Simon has always had a LONG plant step, and according to this info above and a lot of the other info on this thread, that will open the hips early or not allow you to "rock the hips". So how is Simon and others getting their hips involved if they're taking such huge plant steps?

 

[Nick Pacific]

Good info and need to try this out.

And don't doubt this at all, but then it begs the question: how do Simon and others get such a HUGE plant step out of the X step, and still throw so far/rock the hips? Simon has always had a LONG plant step, and according to this info above and a lot of the other info on this thread, that will open the hips early or not allow you to "rock the hips". So how is Simon and others getting their hips involved if they're taking such huge plant steps?

See above - he's getting his foot and knee turned in. His front plant foot looks long as he stretches it out (like a baseball hitter getting ready to wind up), but when it actually hits the ground and he is in full reach back, you'll see it's shorter than you might actually think it is.

And I think you can get away with a longer plant foot step if you're doing the most important parts correct, like the timing, crushing the can, foot/knee/hip turned in and away.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Something I discovered recently when reading some other random form thread was the difference between swinging that leg toe down vs toe up. If you work on this toe down hip swing, you'll find that you naturally land toes first, then roll toe to heel and crush the can. If you just practice swinging that leg toe down vs toe up and look at how you're landing, you'll notice a big difference.
]

I think this also speaks to what I'm talking about above. If your lead plant foot/knee/hip is all turned inward, it will automatically force you to land toe first. It makes sense too if you think about it, as your plant foot comes forward, if it is turned inward that automatically drops your toe and raises your heel forcing you to land toe first and crush the can.

If your front plant foot/knee/hip is open and turned outward towards the target you'll land flat-footed or even heel first.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Again, see photo #2 here. Once that front plant foot/knee/hip is turned inward/dropped it literally forces you to land toe first and crush the can

 

[azplaya25]

I just go back to hitting a baseball, I literally do the exact same thing. If your slamming that front foot into the ground and really crushing the can, all that reaching goes out the window. You'll also realize the only way to effectively brace that plant foot and keep yourself from falling too far forward is getting your plant foot and knee down strong and turned in. If your knee and subsequently your front foot is open, i.e. anything past 9pm, there's no way to brace effectively enough and you'll fall forward.

This below has been VERY helpful and as someone who swung a bat decades before he swung a disc it helped me tremendously

I've realized through my form journey that I've always sucked at rotational sports because I never learned to use my hips to generate power. Better late that never I suppose.

This vid is similar to the one you posted, except it's from our resident form expert so I trust his advice a little more. Using a hockey shot type motion then building it into a disc golf swing. It's important to realize the difference between a one handed swing and a two handed swing. Working this swing drill with a golf club has really helped me get the full range of motion required for effortless distance.

https://youtu.be/7IFO7J3AV5Y