The Free-Floating Arm Moment

[drk_evns]

Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically.

This, I think is the key to seeing the throw as a holistic movement, rather than a checklist of positions or smaller movements.

While the hips are the powerhouse of the throw (see Rocking the Hips in my signature) the arm movement is the locus of the throw and our last point of connection to the disc. This is why it's so easy to "strong-arm" the throw. It feels powerful to round. It tenses muscles that feel like they're doing a lot of work, but in reality, that work is actively slowing down the swing and throwing it off. We know the arm is what facilitates the throw, but we don't know how to generate the speed because our brain is convinced our disc is light enough to throw with muscles.

There is a key moment in the throw, between the peak of your backswing and before you get into the power pocket. A gap. A jump. A "free-floating" moment.

Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically.

You need to work your body to make this moment happen. If you feel as if you're "pulling" it's wrong. The arm should be shooting forward into the power pocket, not being dragged into it. It's a lack of effort for a moment, made possible by the effort put in before it happens with your lower body.

This gif below VERY clearly shows this happening. Notice how SW's arm is the ONLY thing moving to the hit after he's shifted his weight to the front foot. Everything STOPS for a moment, to allow the arm to jump into position and eventually far enough to rip out at the hit.

It should almost feel as if your arm is whipping straight out to the right. The reality is, your body will rotate once your hips have hit their full range of motion and your shoulder angle will compress closer to 90 degrees (most pros are very close to 90 degrees).

When you think about the throw in this way, as a series of movements to get your arm to whip forward, your brain starts to automatically understand what it needs to do to make it happen. It's a more reliable "swing thought" that really allows you to focus on the throw as a single motion.

It also is frustratingly simple once you've cracked it.

 

[drk_evns]

This is very easy to see in a throw like Paul McBeth's. He's the pinnacle of the "American Style" for me. His jump is also really exagerrated. Some people will even say Paul rounds because of how collapsed his shoulder ange can be in the throw before the "jump."

In a more Swedish style of throw, it's nearly impossible to see because the arm is held taught almost the entire time like a pendulum. The feeling and setup however, feel very similar. Both are valid ways to do it.

If you ever watch a young kid (~8 years old) throw a disc, you'll likely see the pendulum version just because of the size and weight of the disc, annd they are FORCED to throw well because the discs relative weight is so much heavier. Basically, they are able to skip to good form because their brain isn't tricked into thinking they could throw it with their tiny arms. They're forced to brace (think HUB throwing a bench).

 

[Sard0nyx]

So I went out in the field and tried the stuff you were talking about with the hammer and I was able to get some feeling of the hit. Now it's a matter of trying to sync up the rest of the body. I think I was able to push some buzzzes out to 300' with just taking steps and not worrying about lower body and shift. Thank you for that insightful tip.

One thing about this free-floating arm moment that I was wondering. How do you decouple it from strong-arming? The disc needs to be moving across the chest and then at the hit you need to accelerate. I'm finding that the disc needs to be pretty slow in order to pound the hammer. But with the wall frame drill and the weight shift, the disc might be moving too fast across my chest to feel the weight of it. Is this something that just needs to be worked on? And is getting the timing right and speeding up the free-floating arm stage (without powering up your arm/using just the lower body) the key to getting big distance?

 

[Phathatter]

I was going to post something almost identical, so I will just add a few thoughts. Sometimes I'll start focusing on upper body stuff (which, yes sometimes you need to do if you are rounding or dipping or going noseup, etc.) and before long I am lost and just strong arming. But if I focus only on footwork, the upper body whips the disc on its own--I don't even really feel what is happening with my arms until the disc is in front of me.

This leads me to believe that perhaps going through the motions in super slow-mo (or throwing in the pool a la McBeth) is the way to focus on upper body stuff. Then, when you are in the field you can focus on your balance, posture and footwork--and let the arm take care of itself.

 

[seedlings]

In Basketball, the off hand only balances the ball so the shooting hand can put the power in. In disc golf backhand, I have been thinking of my throwing arm as the basketball off hand until the disc crosses in front of my sternum toward the target - from that point it becomes the shooting hand.

What that means is what OP said. All the hand/arm does (at first) is keeping the disc in position while the big forces of hips, shoulders and body weight do their work. After that, from sternum on out, the arm muscles engage the last bit of the throw.

Keep the disc ahead of the sternum from furthest reach back to pocket to release. Perhaps not literally, but that is certainly the sensation, and worth achieving. Helps lead with the elbow and makes strong arming difficult.

 

[Parbequeue]

Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically.

There is a key moment in the throw, between the peak of your backswing and before you get into the power pocket. A gap. A jump. A "free-floating" moment.

Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically.

It also is frustratingly simple once you've cracked it.

I'm not really in a position to give advice, but I wanted to add (incase it wasn't obvious for everyone aka me); your arm has to be loose at first before it can become taut by moving the body. This is at least my experience recently, where I started to try and cheat to the heavy disc moment - I lost all power from any other parts of the body, the sequence was doomed from the get go, and my posture suffered tremendously.

I would even go as far to say that if you forget about adding any power (at first) with the arm, then the correct posture will be far easier to achieve (which is pretty much what drk is saying!). It's also incredibly hard to get a loose arm to work well without the proper lower body situation.

 

[drk_evns]

One thing about this free-floating arm moment that I was wondering. How do you decouple it from strong-arming? The disc needs to be moving across the chest and then at the hit you need to accelerate. I'm finding that the disc needs to be pretty slow in order to pound the hammer. But with the wall frame drill and the weight shift, the disc might be moving too fast across my chest to feel the weight of it. Is this something that just needs to be worked on? And is getting the timing right and speeding up the free-floating arm stage (without powering up your arm/using just the lower body) the key to getting big distance?

It should feel like a zero-gravity moment before that as it flies from the backswing to the power pocket. You will feel the weight of your disc and arm once you get into the power pocket and as it extends to the hit. This is also the only time you can really "add" power with your muscles by extending your arm at the elbow. I can throw 450+ without ever thinking about adding power by actively doing this. I haven't even really messed with it much, but I expect I have some sort of "automatic" level that I apply when I throw built into muscle memory.

 

[seedlings]

It should feel like a zero-gravity moment before that as it flies from the backswing to the power pocket. You will feel the weight of your disc and arm once you get into the power pocket and as it extends to the hit. This is also the only time you can really "add" power with your muscles by extending your arm at the elbow. I can throw 450+ without ever thinking about adding power by actively doing this. I haven't even really messed with it much, but I expect I have some sort of "automatic" level that I apply when I throw built into muscle memory.

I just came to this conclusion last week, except I would describe the zero gravity moment as being in the pocket while shifting hips and shoulders, before the arm extends. Caveat: I cannot throw 450 regularly ... being 46y, I can only throw goalpost to goalpost now, with little effort. But that's a two end zone improvement (60 feet) for me in one week. I occasionally get one 400+ but can't get the timing right often. So, drk may be completely correct and I'm not there yet.

 

[drk_evns]

I just came to this conclusion last week, except I would describe the zero gravity moment as being in the pocket while shifting hips and shoulders, before the arm extends. Caveat: I cannot throw 450 regularly ... being 46y, I can only throw goalpost to goalpost now, with little effort. But that's a two end zone improvement (60 feet) for me in one week. I occasionally get one 400+ but can't get the timing right often. So, drk may be completely correct and I'm not there yet.

I would say it's everything up to the power pocket and you don't linger there... the disc should be gone before you can really notice you're in it.

The disc is moving forward during the "zero g" moment I'm talking about. That's probably not the appropriate term, but I'm trying to use many adjectives. Jump. Zero G. Gap. Free Float.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I'm chasing the dragon on this feeling. I think I have it but haven't been in the field for a month to really work on it. When it's happened in the past ii haven't known what I did different from an ok throw but I've described here before it just feels like the arm is along for the ride and I could really feel the disc rip out

 

[drk_evns]

The whip is truly the right analogy.

 

[Warlan]

Drk and sidewinder, how would this concept apply to the one leg drill or closed shoulder drill? Those drills and many others require all arm as the lower mody is already in position. There is no lower body to cause the shoulders to rotate and then the arm to compress to 90 degrees and draw the disc into the power pocket. Or am I missing something?

 

[sidewinder22]

Drk and sidewinder, how would this concept apply to the one leg drill or closed shoulder drill? Those drills and many others require all arm as the lower mody is already in position. There is no lower body to cause the shoulders to rotate and then the arm to compress to 90 degrees and draw the disc into the power pocket. Or am I missing something?

Your core muscles and gravity and arm swing momentum rotate you standing on one leg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=1m8s

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

The whip is truly the right analogy.

Yeah, I agree. One thing that Stokely correctly identified in his "what's snap" video, was that a whip has to be an unbroken chain of ever-so-slowly accelerating parts.

I know he's teaching to the great-unwashed-masses and so some of the finer points seem to get chucked out, like he's clearly not personally turning backwards like he showed - but once I put the handle of the whip at the back shoulder, it made so much sense to move the body so that the whip can unroll.

For me, it's slower than I'm used to feeling the back of the body feeling. I've regularly thought, "damn, this is too slow." only to have managed to get the disc further into this position:

It's a power leap that I cannot make happen by adding muscle.

 

[drk_evns]

HUB, agreed. The backswing feels slow and the hit seems to happen in an instant.

 

[azplaya25]

Great post. This is another reason that throwing a hammer is so helpful. I spent months strong arming the hammer, then finally figured out that I could use my body to swing the hammer like tossing a horseshoe backhand. Once you figure this out out, everything becomes effortless. Even putting I find much easier just swinging a loose arm then popping it with some finger spring at the end

 

[Warlan]

Your core muscles and gravity and arm swing momentum rotate you standing on one leg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=1m8s

I understand that is what happens in the drill but this thread and others are saying:

"Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically."

If true, wouldn't a one step be better?

 

[sidewinder22]

I understand that is what happens in the drill but this thread and others are saying:

"Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically."

If true, wouldn't a one step be better?

Better how? It's just more momentum or gas.

 

[Joquex]

While the arm is going forward this way, do you lose the feeling of being taut and then kinda catch the tautness again at the pocket?

 

[Warlan]

Better how? It's just more momentum or gas.

I understand that it is more gas but standing on one leg and swinging the arm relies on the arm motion to get things going. This is in contrary to the thread which says the opposite. That the body movement (presumably starting with the lower body, progressing to the upper body) is what brings the arm into the correct position. The one leg drill doesn't do this. However, it's entirely possible I'm doing the one leg drill wrong!