[Innova] Thoughts on 150 class vs. Blizzard plastic?

[Oklahyzer]

Bubbles in the rim are more understable, bubbles in the faceplate are more overstable

This is true in theory, but has not held out to be true in practice - at least inasmuch as choosing a Blizz disc is concerned. I have a couple of Wraiths that exhibit this exact opposite effect (and yes, there is a difference in plh). My Destroyer is all rim bubbles and more hss than a friend's which has bubbles in the plate (early edition)...plh and dome are the same on these two discs. Mine is marked 136 (scales 138) and his marked 141 if I remember right.

I think this tells me/us that the distribution of the bubbles doesn't really make much appreciable difference at all except in a physics paper.

 

[Dyoel182]

Bubbles in the rim give different stability than bubbles in the faceplate.

That and the durability issues are why they moved the bubbles to the rim and off the plate.

 

[mashnut]

Bubbles in the rim are more understable, bubbles in the faceplate are more overstable

Position of the bubbles has a whole lot less to do with the stability than the plh and dome, I've seen almost as many blizzard discs that didn't follow your little rule of thumb as those that did.

 

[jrawk]

Position of the bubbles has a whole lot less to do with the stability than the plh and dome, I've seen almost as many blizzard discs that didn't follow your little rule of thumb as those that did.

No doubt. But if there are two of the same plh and dome, the one with more bubbles in the flight plate should be more under stable.

 

[Oklahyzer]

No doubt. But if there are two of the same plh and dome, the one with more bubbles in the flight plate should be more under stable.

I think you got that backwards, but even more than that, I think that the displacement by the bubbles isn't great enough to really show this effect in practice. Maybe with a material that was much more dense, but it doesn't seem to do a thing with urethane.

 

[Rizbee]

Not exactly true, if this were true everyone would want 120's not 175's. Noodle arms can throw lighter discs easier which gives them more distance. Heavier weight discs are more object like that is why there is a max weight.

Could you explain what you mean by "object-like"? And how is that related to why there is a max weight?

 

[Speedly]

Is this to mean that the Destroyer would be too stable for lower power players? I don't have a Blizz myself, and it seems that the phrase "just as stable as its max weight counterparts" would be counterproductive for lower power throwers.

Poke poke. Can I trouble you guys for observations on this?

 

[ALPO]

I throw Blizzard for max distance. I've parked a few drives that were previously out of my range. The only other disc I have thrown is Latitude 64 Diamond 150 class. I haven't gotten enough field time in with it yet, but 90% of the time (with the courses I play) I reach for 165 and up.

If it's open and outside 350...Blizzard Destroyer 150. But I've had limited success w/ Bliz Wraith and Ape as well.

 

[prerube]

I bet DGR is really enjoying the amount of FAIL in this thread.
Mashnut, I know you want to disagree with everything I say, but Jrawk is right. if the dome and PLH is the same, the bubbles would affect stability.

This is true in theory, but has not held out to be true in practice - at least inasmuch as choosing a Blizz disc is concerned. I have a couple of Wraiths that exhibit this exact opposite effect (and yes, there is a difference in plh). My Destroyer is all rim bubbles and more hss than a friend's which has bubbles in the plate (early edition)...plh and dome are the same on these two discs. Mine is marked 136 (scales 138) and his marked 141 if I remember right.

I think this tells me/us that the distribution of the bubbles doesn't really make much appreciable difference at all except in a physics paper.

in your case I am betting it is the archer not the arrow

[/COLOR]Could you explain what you mean by "object-like"? And how is that related to why there is a max weight?

Why do you think there is a max weight? eventually you are just tossing a heavy object instead of throwing a frisbee.

 

[Oklahyzer]

Is this to mean that the Destroyer would be too stable for lower power players? I don't have a Blizz myself, and it seems that the phrase "just as stable as its max weight counterparts" would be counterproductive for lower power throwers.

Poke poke. Can I trouble you guys for observations on this?

Blizzard isn't any cure-all for power/form/distance. Offhand observation is that you should try them out based on the speed level you can currently throw properly, plus one or two. If you can't make a Valk do what it should, then chances are good that you aren't going to benefit by throwing a Destroyer even if it's 50g lighter. Most people can handle the blizz Wraith, but strong throwers will need clean form if they don't want it to be flippy (same is true for several of the light weights, blizz or not).

I'll say that as long as you can reasonably handle the speed of the disc, even a bad throw with a blizz will probably get you your average usual max distance with the same disc in your usual weight...with good throws you should definitely see an increase. In winds, the blizz bounce around a bit more and die faster, but if you can get them up to speed they do pretty well (Wraith and Katana are really touchy, though).

So...if you're a low power thrower and you pick up a blizz Destroyer, it's still going to be a meathook and you may or may not see any increase in distance. They're still fun to throw, though and they do zip down the fairway really nicely. Also, some people look to a higher speed driver to act as a better headwind disc than what they can usually handle...it works a little, but you can probably get the same distance results with another normal weight disc.

 

[Rizbee]

Why do you think there is a max weight? eventually you are just tossing a heavy object instead of throwing a frisbee.

Since I was one of the people who voted on the max weight issue I have a firsthand understanding of why there is a max weight. Flying discs behaving in an "object-like" fashion is just one of the reasons. Some players supported the max weight rule because they were concerned about bystander safety. Some wanted heavier discs outlawed because they didn't behave the same way the lighter Frisbees we had been playing with behaved. And I believe others supported the max weight rule because they wanted to outlaw discs from specific manufacturers.

I'm throwing 150g Blizzard Katanas right now. I have found the other models I have tested (in a variety of weights and bubble locations) to be too over-stable for me. And I throw a lot of light plastic - 150 Sidewinders, Valks, TeeBirds; 155-ish Beasts, Orcs, Archons, Wraiths. My arm speed is slower than the power throwers I play with regularly. But I also put a lot of spin on my throws, which I think also leads to more over-stability in flight.

I expected to see a correlation between bubble location and stability, but I haven't seen it consistently enough to call it a trend.

 

[Oklahyzer]

Apparently Dave agrees with most of us instead of Prerube....or maybe we agree with him. Here's a response from him to a question on the PDGA forum. Seems to corroborate what many are saying about bubble distribution:

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=29785&page=426


Quote:
Originally Posted by hvnafit
Dave
I want to admit that; I really just don't understand!!!!
I fell in love with your Blizzard Katanas. I bought my first one (143 g Katana). This disc totally turned my game around. I searched until i found another 143 Katana. it happened to be the exact same color and flew exactly the same as the first one. Therefore i have been searching for any blizzard Katanas in the 140g range. There are none to be found. I have even called about 10 disc suppliers and they are saying they have many in the 130s and 150s none in the 140s. well i decided I'd try a lighter one. 136g to be exact. this is a totally different disc! all bubbles are in the rim (my others have them in rim and flight plate. the 140s give me the lazy "S" everyone wants for distance. I can't flip this one into a head wind. flies so stable for me that it is useless to me.
Please inform me as to why all disc manfactures seem to change things from their first run to their second. why are the bubbles taken out of the flight plate? why are the new ones sooooo much more domey than the ones i have? every Katana i have seen sense my two are sooo different than the first ones that came out. i am still looking for a new one in the 140s and would really like to find one with the bubbles throughout the disc. if you make a perfect product why change it?!?!?!?!? please help me to understand. Im not really complaining just wanting to understand.

thanks for your time

Jimmy

Many others have the same questions you do. First, I don't know why you can't find any Katana in the 140s, other than your dealers are out.

The inconsistencies are due to the nature of the materials and molding variables. This happens much more with Blizzard than any other disc type. With Blizzard, it is very difficult to get consistent results from disc to disc coming out of the machine, let alone from batch to batch. Even the colors we use change the appearance of the Blizzard. I would like to say that we have mastered the Blizzard tech by now, but we haven't. We are doing our best and have purchased a new piece of equipment which we expect will help with this.

All this being said; whether there are bubbles in the flight plate or not, it doesn't affect the flight of the disc. A disc with only bubbles in the rim may be more or less stable or domier or flatter. All those characteristics vary independent of each other. You might try contacting Eric at the Innova Store and ask him for a specific type disc in a factory second.

Your 136g Katana may become more useful over time as you beat it in. Once you have seasoned this disc, it will be useful for a long time.
__________________


Elsewhere in that thread and on DGR, Dave and others indicate that the bubbles don't make much difference in stability, but have shifted to the rim only simply for manufacturing success (stamping, QC, and x-outs). So.....yeah, on paper it might matter, but it's not proving to be so in practice - even to the manufacturer. Maybe we can put it to rest now?

Prerube, neither Archer is perfect, but both of us are proficient and have pretty clean form. We both had the same observations of the discs. Stability varies for sure, but it ain't the distribution of the bubbles.

 

[kingjames1014]

I've got 2 Blizzard Destroyers (130 & 134) & 2 DX Destroyers(147 & 150).
I can't throw the blizzards to save my life.
I was hole high on #18 @ France Park yesterday(410') with my 147 DX.