Thoughts on less than full elbow extension for BH?

[disc-golf-neil]

I wonder if going close to full elbow extension but stopping just short could improve explosiveness when you start changing directions from elbow extension to flexion due to avoiding losing some energy into the joint instead of more of it staying and going into the muscle stretch shortening cycle due to when the flexion starts from non-full extension there is an opposite momentum the muscles fight to reverse instead of some of that momentum being stopped by the joint locking.

However, the joint may more efficiently rebound the energy back as it locks then bounces back, so I'm not sure.

 

[Sheep]

The importance of the backswing isn't getting your arm out or the disc super far back, its getting your shoulders turned and your body loaded your shoulder to elbow set up in a position to not leak power.

This is why you can see guys like Seppo throw 600 feet but he barely extends his arm.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

The importance of the backswing isn't getting your arm out or the disc super far back, its getting your shoulders turned and your body loaded your shoulder to elbow set up in a position to not leak power.

This is why you can see guys like Seppo throw 600 feet but he barely extends his arm.

So do you think there would be no difference in an all else equal comparison? Say for example, Seppo started doing full elbow extension with the same degree of proficiency as he does his normal form. All else equal, compared to his normal form, does the elbow extension add or take away any benefits?

 

[Sheep]

So do you think there would be no difference in an all else equal comparison? Say for example, Seppo started doing full elbow extension with the same degree of proficiency as he does his normal form. All else equal, compared to his normal form, does the elbow extension add or take away any benefits?

Seppo is a hard one to judge now because you have to look at his old form. He doesn't tour anymore because he's injured. He cannot play at 100% so his changes are most likely injury related.

The biggest key is to not hug yourself and not collapse the shoulder.

Getting the shoulder at around 90° or greater is more of a setup. Getting the arm out helps with timing and rhythm in the throw. Because you dont necessarily want to curve it into your chest, but not having full extension where your elbow is more relaxed isn't going to hurt your power.

The idea behind reach back and reach back far etc is old school theory. You'll hear a lot of players talk about getting the disc back really far in your reach back. Which has caused more modern studied coaches to wanna kick shins and karate chop people making this advice. It's mainly about getting the shoulders properly into the throw, and not collapsing the shoulder, but also setting the shoulder up to drive the kinetic chain when you start the forward swing. that elbow has to move and hinge really naturally for you to get a good throw. so if its easier to stay more relaxed and not fully extend it, you're going to see better results from that vs trying to get it straight. And when you try and lock that elbow straight, you're straining and more likely to collapse your front shoulder. Which then in turn causes you to have to get the disc back into position and forward and that's wasted energy.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm with Sheep, I don't think it makes much, if any, distance difference in regard to the elbow and those players that do force the elbow extension/bounce tend to have elbow issues and wear sleeves.

The shoulder load is much more important. You can do a version of the Door Frame Drill with the elbow bent around a pole.

Young Seppo with full elbow extension.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I'm with Sheep, I don't think it makes much, if any, distance difference in regard to the elbow and those players that do force the elbow extension/bounce tend to have elbow issues and wear sleeves.

The shoulder load is much more important. You can do a version of the Door Frame Drill with the elbow bent around a pole.

Young Seppo with full elbow extension.
View attachment 330098

Thanks. That's why I was thinking about doing a less-than-full elbow bounce extension (to avoid injury) because it seems that bounce motion seems to help me get ready to be explosive since it's such a fast feeling.

 

[Sheep]

Thanks. That's why I was thinking about doing a less-than-full elbow bounce extension (to avoid injury) because it seems that bounce motion seems to help me get ready to be explosive since it's such a fast feeling.

yeah, fast feeling doesnt' mean its actually powerful.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

yeah, fast feeling doesnt' mean its actually powerful.

Yeah but what I mean is it could be a cue to get you to be more explosive from where the power really comes from.

 

[Sheep]

Yeah but what I mean is it could be a cue to get you to be more explosive from where the power really comes from.

Uhh.
I think my short answer on this is:

Wrong campgrounds, that's the slingshot camp.

 

[RowingBoats]

I'm trying to fully understand what you mean by this. It sounds like at least one thing you are saying is that you believe a large amount of power is generated by going all out immediately after the completion of the backswing, and I think this is a common, but incorrect idea.

I don't personally deliberately force the issue in either direction. Intuitively I'd say that you are probably making the right decision to not go out of your way to fully extend your arm, but I don't think it has much to do with power.

 

[RowingBoats]

This isn't 100% related to your question, but your question did make me remember some of the interesting comments in it. If you haven't read this thread, its a good one:

The Free-Floating Arm Moment

Don't try to move your arm into the correct positions... instead, move your body to make those positions happen automatically. This, I think is the key to seeing the throw as a holistic movement, rather than a checklist of positions or smaller movements. While the hips are the powerhouse of...

www.dgcoursereview.com

 

[Sheep]

I'm trying to fully understand what you mean by this. It sounds like at least one thing you are saying is that you believe a large amount of power is generated by going all out immediately after the completion of the backswing, and I think this is a common, but incorrect idea.

I don't personally deliberately force the issue in either direction. Intuitively I'd say that you are probably making the right decision to not go out of your way to fully extend your arm, but I don't think it has much to do with power.

There are a lot of people who fall into the tendon bounce, or "rubber band sling" or whatever.
And its kind of hard to get passed it, because it "feels" powerful.

What you're feeling is the ligaments and tendons stretching and catching up.

This is also why we have people who scream from the mountain tops about how good eagles forehand is, or his backhand or some other people doing this and that.

Now we got this massive group of players wearing elbow sleeves and .. its just.. a mess.
I get it with simon, cause he litterally over worked his. But a lot of other players are doing this tendon bounce stuff, its just not good.

But there are a lot of people in that camp who think its the more powerful way to do things.

 

[RowingBoats]

There are a lot of people who fall into the tendon bounce, or "rubber band sling" or whatever.
And its kind of hard to get passed it, because it "feels" powerful.

What you're feeling is the ligaments and tendons stretching and catching up.

This is also why we have people who scream from the mountain tops about how good eagles forehand is, or his backhand or some other people doing this and that.

Now we got this massive group of players wearing elbow sleeves and .. its just.. a mess.
I get it with simon, cause he litterally over worked his. But a lot of other players are doing this tendon bounce stuff, its just not good.

But there are a lot of people in that camp who think its the more powerful way to do things.

Ya. I do think there are some legitimate reasons to talk about 'rubber bands' and 'tendon bouncing', but not in the way it seems to be brought up in this thread, imo.

If you understand the door-frame drill, I think it gets to the heart of my point, and proves that there is no real power difference based solely on the back-swing arm shape.

 

[Sheep]

Ya. I do think there are some legitimate reasons to talk about 'rubber bands' and 'tendon bouncing', but not in the way it seems to be brought up in this thread, imo.

You mean.. bring it up like this?