[Compare] "Trilogy" better distance than Innova?

[Moose33]

I haven't seen the rapid change in Trillogy discs many describe, but it could just be me.

I have had the same TP Harp in the bag since they came out and it's plenty stable. I also have used a TP Stag that while it is on the less stable side now, took two years to get there.

 

[Twmccoy]

I am starting to think that Defenders actually have more potential than Destroyers. Problem is, I don't use mine enough to get them there.

I haven't thrown the Defender a ton, but I somewhat agree. The Defender is definitely faster than a Destroyer. Very noticeably so. It glides as well or better.

I'd equate the Defender with a Boss. Pretty beefy, but with good glide. The Defender will flex out a little if you really hammer it too.

I can throw Defenders and Destroyers about the same distance. I figure once the Defender beats in somewhat it'll start outdistancing the Destroyers pretty consistently. I can't deny the usefulness of a Destroyer. I have one in my bag and reach for it often.

 

[slowplastic]

I find the Defender, at least in Bio, is closer to a Force than OS Destroyer. But a little faster still I think. In calm conditions I can throw a Defender and beefy Destroyer on basically the exact same lines and the Defender is usually 15' more distance for me. But in wind the HSS shows its true face and it's more similar to a Force how it will flip and then still fade, whereas beefy Destroyers really hold firmly.

Basically my point is I think the extra distance on the Defender is from it not being quite as HSS, but I don't have the arm to make it flip when they are fresh. But they definitely will beat in to show that turn sooner than a beefy Destroyer will. I haven't headwind tested Lucid Defenders, but they do seem more truly OS in the HSS portion of flight.

 

[chadair]

Terns are all over the place in stability so its hard to say.

My longest drives have been with my Star Terns around 165g. But I have to buy 4 of them to get one in the stability I want. It's a finicky disc that has cost me more strokes than it has saved I'm afraid. I've tried to replace Terns with Trilogy stuff - Halo, Frost Havoc, Freedom, Air Trespass, Ballista, Destiny, King, and have gone back to Innova Terns for that slot. I don't mind having a mixed company bag, but the inconsistency in Innova stuff drives me nuts... OK, some Trilogy discs are inconsistent too, like Saints IMHO.

Currently working with some Air Flows, and these are close to being as far as Terns and a lot more consistent from throw to throw and disc to disc. We shall see.

 

[Nenja]

I think the new Ballista is very much like the tern

Is this true? I still can't find anything closer to a 170g Star Tern, then my beat in Flow. Maybe I'll just stick to them, especially since I got a few old pearly OS poptops...

I love the glide of the Trilogy discs. The River, the Falchion, and the Renegade are all a lot of fun to throw and watch 'em go!

Having said that, to me the biggest negative of Trilogy vs. Innova is the durability of the plastics. Champion discs hold their flight patterns (nearly) forever, and Star takes a long time to season in. By way of contrast, Gold Line hardly lasts three months of consistent use; Rivers become flippy wayyyy too soon. Even Opto and Moonshine plastics don't last as long as Star (and nowhere near Champion).

So I gave up Rivers despite my love of their glide, because the durable Leopard3s have really grown on me. I still bag Trilogy discs, but the point is that there are trade-offs, so it still comes down to what works best for each individual.

What weight did you buy your Gold Rivers in? I bought a beat in 178g, one year later I still wish it turned a bit more.

I haven't seen the rapid change in Trillogy discs many describe, but it could just be me.

I have had the same TP Harp in the bag since they came out and it's plenty stable. I also have used a TP Stag that while it is on the less stable side now, took two years to get there.

I think it's plastic and weight. It seems they lose some HSS rather quick but then stays in sweetspot for long, at least in higher weights?

Maybe people go lower weight to get good flight out of the box, and as soon as that peak of HSS is gone they're not as stable as wished for?

 

[Nenja]

My longest drives have been with my Star Terns around 165g. But I have to buy 4 of them to get one in the stability I want. It's a finicky disc that has cost me more strokes than it has saved I'm afraid. I've tried to replace Terns with Trilogy stuff - Halo, Frost Havoc, Freedom, Air Trespass, Ballista, Destiny, King, and have gone back to Innova Terns for that slot. I don't mind having a mixed company bag, but the inconsistency in Innova stuff drives me nuts... OK, some Trilogy discs are inconsistent too, like Saints IMHO.

Currently working with some Air Flows, and these are close to being as far as Terns and a lot more consistent from throw to throw and disc to disc. We shall see.

My friend, I didn't read your post until after edit time...

I think you're on the right path. I really think you should try to find a beat in Gold Flow. They get some turn rather fast but still keeps some fade and with a higher weight will be more reliable.
I lost my beat in Flow so now I simply work straight to hyzer lines instead of s-curves. I might lose some distance but I have a feeling I scored better (only 3 wide open 350+ holes on my local course) since I lost my US DD.

As soon as you find a Flow for your arm you'll notice. Slight hyzer flip up to straight and hold straight for 300' followed by a sweeping but not small fade.

 

[SD86]

What weight did you buy your Gold Rivers in? I bought a beat in 178g, one year later I still wish it turned a bit more.

High 160s, low 170s were my River weights. I also got them in Moonshine, and those turned flippy on me rather fast.

And there may be something to understable discs getting flippy faster than stable/overstable ones. My Renegades (Moonshine, Fuzion, Biofuzion) got flippy rather fast. But my GL Saint took its time showing any sign of beating in. My Opto Falchion has held it's flight pattern fairly well, and I've been using it for many moons now.

And my GL Flow, at 173g, just never would really beat in to what I wanted it to be. I'm just keeping faith with Terns now. I would not mind finding a GL Flow in the mid- to low-160s, but haven't seen any for sale in weights that low.

 

[Lancerswimmer89]

High 160s, low 170s were my River weights. I also got them in Moonshine, and those turned flippy on me rather fast.

And there may be something to understable discs getting flippy faster than stable/overstable ones. My Renegades (Moonshine, Fuzion, Biofuzion) got flippy rather fast. But my GL Saint took its time showing any sign of beating in. My Opto Falchion has held it's flight pattern fairly well, and I've been using it for many moons now.

And my GL Flow, at 173g, just never would really beat in to what I wanted it to be. I'm just keeping faith with Terns now. I would not mind finding a GL Flow in the mid- to low-160s, but haven't seen any for sale in weights that low.

Opto Falchions are my go-to driver most of the time as I am still building arm speed and technique. I have hit quite a few tree's and bushes, and they're still holding that turn just the same as the day when I bought them.

Still haven't thrown my new Opto-X River yet, but I'm noping its a pretty straight flyer w/ little or not turn to it.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I suspect that the variance in the durability of Trilogy discs is that they are sharper nosed than their Innova counterparts. Sharper noses mean easier PLH deflection down, which is why DX is fine for a blunt disc, but anything over speed 7 is too sharp. I suspect that the sharper wing is what gives Trilogy discs, their supposed extra glide, but it also makes them unpredictable in the wind. This is why Harps seem to never lose their stability, unless you really warp them. I could probably go to a Trilogy mid and putter setup and be fine, but anything over speed 9 is going to have to stay something somewhat blunt, like a Destroyer. I've had certain Trilogy drivers that kept their stabilty nicely, such as the Stag and Escape, but my River and Felon changed quite rapidly, compared to a Leopard3 and FireBird. My Tresspasses will out distance my Destroyers in calm conditions, but in the wind the Destroyers remain fairly consistent compared to the Trespasses which become quite inconsistent and refused to hold a hyzer.

 

[Grippenripp]

I'll have to agree(as a trilogy thrower) that they beat in rather quickly (which I like) but they don't seem to beat in so bad I can't use them as intended still (which I also like) that having been said: fuzion/gold/tournament I find is theore durable plastic over lucid/VIP/Opto. This is just how it's been for me. And as I stated before, there are plenty of trilogy discs that will hold up in the wind just fine.

 

[wims]

I agree with Gold being more durable with Opto as well

 

[Grippenripp]

I agree with Gold being more durable with Opto as well

I've had people argue this point with me simply based on Z>ESP theory(or whatever company's respective counterpart) it's silly and it's kinda weird but you can hold a lucid and a fuzion disc and feel that lucid isn't the tougher stuff here. IDK I love both of these plastic blends.

 

[Nenja]

High 160s, low 170s were my River weights. I also got them in Moonshine, and those turned flippy on me rather fast.

And there may be something to understable discs getting flippy faster than stable/overstable ones. My Renegades (Moonshine, Fuzion, Biofuzion) got flippy rather fast. But my GL Saint took its time showing any sign of beating in. My Opto Falchion has held it's flight pattern fairly well, and I've been using it for many moons now.

And my GL Flow, at 173g, just never would really beat in to what I wanted it to be. I'm just keeping faith with Terns now. I would not mind finding a GL Flow in the mid- to low-160s, but haven't seen any for sale in weights that low.

Actually my least stable Flow was a Opto, beat in but still didn't look too worn, turned like a beauty with a late healthy fade. Hyzerflip to lazerbeam etc.
You should just forehand drive your Flow into smooth rocks 5-10 times. As soon as that disc shows some turn for you, it's a moneymaker. God damn i hope i find my 7+ years old Lava Gold Flow when the snow melts (hyzerspike into ditch with water, ice and now snow)... They apparently turned out of the box back in those days.

I'll have to agree(as a trilogy thrower) that they beat in rather quickly (which I like) but they don't seem to beat in so bad I can't use them as intended still (which I also like) that having been said: fuzion/gold/tournament I find is theore durable plastic over lucid/VIP/Opto. This is just how it's been for me. And as I stated before, there are plenty of trilogy discs that will hold up in the wind just fine.

Maybe thats actually true, i throw mostly Gold due to feel but i have not experienced it to wear in quickly or lose chunks of plastic. It also get very comfy as it gets roughed up.
Interesting though, is that i cant even tell the difference in plastic hardness between the two.

Even more durable is the Frost funny enough, i guess its soft enough to deform plastically (i'm sorry, i study geology...) and therefore doesn't take as much damage to the edge.

Ps. Tell the people who claim that Latitude gives you more distance than Innova to throw some Trident, XXX & Stilleto, i bet they will consider myth busted.

 

[Grippenripp]

Actually my least stable Flow was a Opto, beat in but still didn't look too worn, turned like a beauty with a late healthy fade. Hyzerflip to lazerbeam etc.
You should just forehand drive your Flow into smooth rocks 5-10 times. As soon as that disc shows some turn for you, it's a moneymaker. God damn i hope i find my 7+ years old Lava Gold Flow when the snow melts (hyzerspike into ditch with water, ice and now snow)... They apparently turned out of the box back in those days.



Maybe thats actually true, i throw mostly Gold due to feel but i have not experienced it to wear in quickly or lose chunks of plastic. It also get very comfy as it gets roughed up.
Interesting though, is that i cant even tell the difference in plastic hardness between the two.

Even more durable is the Frost funny enough, i guess its soft enough to deform plastically (i'm sorry, i study geology...) and therefore doesn't take as much damage to the edge.

Ps. Tell the people who claim that Latitude gives you more distance than Innova to throw some Trident, XXX & Stilleto, i bet they will consider myth busted.

I can feel the difference between them when they're new. Lucid/opto is super soft, gummy but not sticky and the hardness of gold and/fuzion is prevalent until it takes some friendly beatings. Also I have noticed it to be very "elastic" as well absorbing shock from hits and not losing any matter. Add criminal, felon, harp, slammer, justice to that list there's enough super OS molds in the trilogy lineup. IDK what it is but it is more glidey, noe that doesn't equate to more distance, and isn't always a good thing but they make enough molds to counteract that problem also.

 

[Moose33]

The funny thing about the whole Trillogy vs Innova Glide thing I think is somewhat of a misunderstanding.

Innova has sales among intermediate and better golfers based on a certain type of disc. The Roc/3, Teebird, Firebird, Aviar, Destroyer, Wraith. Shryke and others more recently.

The Popular discs I see among Trillogy guys on the course, like the Trespass, Ballista, Escape, King and such that are tagged with that magic Trillogy Glide label might not actually glide that much more than Valkyrie, Eagle L, Leopard or Daedalus but they are more popular for that brand.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that either brand inherently makes more stable or more glidey discs, it's just their audiences likes and dislikes are slightly different.

And since their flight numbers aren't(or weren't after the recent Trillogy change) apples to apples it made perceptions be different than some of the realities were.

I like both companies a lot, and really see way more similarities than differences.

 

[Grippenripp]

The funny thing about the whole Trillogy vs Innova Glide thing I think is somewhat of a misunderstanding.

Innova has sales among intermediate and better golfers based on a certain type of disc. The Roc/3, Teebird, Firebird, Aviar, Destroyer, Wraith. Shryke and others more recently.

The Popular discs I see among Trillogy guys on the course, like the Trespass, Ballista, Escape, King and such that are tagged with that magic Trillogy Glide label might not actually glide that much more than Valkyrie, Eagle L, Leopard or Daedalus but they are more popular for that brand.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that either brand inherently makes more stable or more glidey discs, it's just their audiences likes and dislikes are slightly different.

And since their flight numbers aren't(or weren't after the recent Trillogy change) apples to apples it made perceptions be different than some of the realities were.

I like both companies a lot, and really see way more similarities than differences.

I'd agree with this statement. The only thing difference really is the saturation of understable molds, and again may be the same across companies, but I only throw trilogy and Discraft plastic and Discraft seems to be pretty evenly balanced and sometimes even offering just a US version of a more stable disc. IDK throw what you want just throw something.

 

[BrotherDave]

I haven't seen the rapid change in Trillogy discs many describe, but it could just be me.

I have had the same TP Harp in the bag since they came out and it's plenty stable. I also have used a TP Stag that while it is on the less stable side now, took two years to get there.

I haven't either, relative to any other brands. I've thrown plenty of Valks, Destroyers, Surges, XLs, etc that went from stable to unpredictably flippy in short while. I think that a lot of Trilogy discs tend to have more flashing on them and that's what makes their break-in seem more sudden. A lot of them have flashing on them that you can't even feel in the hand sometimes.

 

[Casey 1988]

What is interesting is that Innova, Millennium, and Discmania are also a trilogy of discs too with a micro side brand for Millennium called Hyzerbomb. It is just that the manufacturers of those brands tend to reinforce it so a sponsored player is only throwing Innova, Millennium, or like Discmania is the brand of the Innova 3 that is sold more in Europe. In fact it has been called the Innova of Europe by the owner of Discmania. They have baskets that are nearly the same as Innova ones but just different enough to warrant making them for Discmania and sold only in Europe.

So yeah the Innova brands are almost a trillogy of brands, except Millennium has a mini side brand of Hyzerbomb. Something few players really think about. I know most sponsored players of Innova and it's side brands are free to use the other brands. Paul McBeth had a disc that was one that Discmania had before the AviarX3 was made for him as does Nate Sexton use a putter and another disc that are Discmania not Innova as well as having a Morter in the bag at some points if he needs such a disc.

 

[Casey 1988]

I'll have to agree(as a trilogy thrower) that they beat in rather quickly (which I like) but they don't seem to beat in so bad I can't use them as intended still (which I also like) that having been said: fuzion/gold/tournament I find is theore durable plastic over lucid/VIP/Opto. This is just how it's been for me. And as I stated before, there are plenty of trilogy discs that will hold up in the wind just fine.

So they are not like the Innova Dragon, a Disc you need to replace every other year possibly keeping the previous used disc for a roller if you do not have that shot.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Wtf?