Trophy only or payout

[BrotherDave]

100% yes. I don't want a player's pack and have no desire to win anymore disc golf related items. I just want to compete for the opportunity to watch my player rating go up or down based on my performance. I would totally pay the $10 'bare bones' cost to cover the necessities that the TD needs to cover. Further, I wouldn't mind paying another $5 to go directly to the TD for their time and effort that it takes to organize an event. I've seen a lot of other am's get burnt out on the cost of tournament play and I think that the current system is not growing the sport. It's burning people out over time.

Same here

 

[ScottishDiscman]

I chose play, cause I haven't ever played a tournament before so it is likely I would use the stuff in the players pack, but I see why more seasoned players would rather do a "lite" option.

 

[Nova P]

The two hours to get there might be sticking issue.

Definitely, especially if check-in is at the crack of dawn. Rising from bed before the sun does is not a happy way to start a day of play.

 

[AndyJB]

If you are gettinf anything other than a trophy, you are no longer an amateur. Why is disc golf so weird about this?

 

[brutalbrutus]

I like payouts, and I hate people complaining about getting their value back. We have enough participation trophy nonsense going on in this country, already...

 

[DavidSauls]

If you are gettinf anything other than a trophy, you are no longer an amateur. Why is disc golf so weird about this?

So what? It's just a division name. An inaccurate one, perhaps, from a semantic purist standpoint. But the name itself shouldn't dictate how we structure our events. It's quite obvious that virtually no one cares.

 

[JC17393]

So what? It's just a division name. An inaccurate one, perhaps, from a semantic purist standpoint. But the name itself shouldn't dictate how we structure our events. It's quite obvious that virtually no one cares.

Is it "just a division name" if it encompasses 20-something divisions?

The use of amateur as a descriptor is to distinguish it from the professional divisions. There was a clear intent in its use, whether the original intent rendered it inaccurate from the start or it has been altered/evolved over the years from its original use. Whether it is an accurate descriptor is another debate, but I don't think it can be shrugged off as "just a name".

 

[DavidSauls]

I like payouts, and I hate people complaining about getting their value back. We have enough participation trophy nonsense going on in this country, already...

The problem is, the demand for payouts and players pack pushes up entry fees to cover them. We're getting bribed to play with our own money.

Myself, if tournaments cost $20-$25, I'd feel like I got my value back just in the tournament itself.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I do think the 50% payout structure needs to be changed, or at least give the TD's the option to have 50%, 40% or top 1/3 or something.

 

[brutalbrutus]

The problem is, the demand for payouts and players pack pushes up entry fees to cover them. We're getting bribed to play with our own money.

Myself, if tournaments cost $20-$25, I'd feel like I got my value back just in the tournament itself.

Yea. Pdga entry fees are getting higher. Our local club has a mostly non sanctioned series every year(any of the events held at city parks need insurance). The entry fees are low and have payouts, but no packs. Rec $10, Int/Adv/Age protected pro divisions $15, ams paid in vouchers top50%. Open is $25 and payout top 1/3.

 

[scarpfish]

I do think the 50% payout structure needs to be changed, or at least give the TD's the option to have 50%, 40% or top 1/3 or something.

They already do have that discretion.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Well more TDs need to use it then because Ive never seen it.

 

[scarpfish]

Well more TDs need to use it then because Ive never seen it.

I'd suspect not that many TDs are using it because they don't see the benefit in the same Ams walking away with the lion's share of the swag every tournament.

Whether payout is distributed top heavy or flat is of no difference to a TD's bottom line for that event, but with a flatter payout, a lot more people walk away happy and sign up for his next event, which probably is good for his bottom line in the long run. The manufacturers who sponsor events like it that way too as it gets their products in more people's hands.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Yea I guess that is probably a good reason. How dare you bring logic into these forums!

 

[DavidSauls]

Is it "just a division name" if it encompasses 20-something divisions?

The use of amateur as a descriptor is to distinguish it from the professional divisions. There was a clear intent in its use, whether the original intent rendered it inaccurate from the start or it has been altered/evolved over the years from its original use. Whether it is an accurate descriptor is another debate, but I don't think it can be shrugged off as "just a name".

Our "Pros" are not really professionals---except a handful---and our "Ams" are not pure amateurs. Shrug. The names separate our top levels from lower ones, in a brief and easily recognizable way.

I'm an Advanced Amateur Grand Master. I'm hardly advanced, not really amateur, not particularly grand, and haven't mastered anything. So?

We can use the "amateur" name without being committed to any sort of amateur purity. Why not---lots of "amateurs" in other sports receive value for their play.

My opposition to the current amateur structure has nothing to do with the word itself. I'm particularly disdainful of players packages. Though I recognize that a lot of players seem to want them, and TDs naturally do what they think the players want.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'd suspect not that many TDs are using it because they don't see the benefit in the same Ams walking away with the lion's share of the swag every tournament.

Whether payout is distributed top heavy or flat is of no difference to a TD's bottom line for that event, but with a flatter payout, a lot more people walk away happy and sign up for his next event, which probably is good for his bottom line in the long run. The manufacturers who sponsor events like it that way too as it gets their products in more people's hands.

There's also a theory that flatter payout means attracts more players, so more entry fees into the prize pool, so adds dollars to the top. Would you rather win a 6-person division with steep payouts, or a 20-person division with flatter payouts?

 

[BrotherDave]

Some of this is covered already in the rule book:

2.5 Trophy Only
Last updated: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 14:43
At the option of the Tournament Director, Amateur players are allowed to play in Professional divisions for which they are eligible according to age and sex at a reduced entry fee.

At the option of the Tournament Director, Professional or Amateur players may compete for trophies only in any Amateur division offered by an event that their player rating, age and sex qualifies them for, by paying a reduced entry fee.

Players competing under "Trophy Only" are not allowed to accept cash or prizes based upon finish but are allowed to accept trophies.

Players paying full price should have priority over players paying the reduced rate. If an event or division is full, a Tournament Director may require trophy only players to pay the full price in order to maintain their position in the tournament.

I would love to ask TDs about the possibility of playing "trophy only" but I'm not ready to receive the blank stares I'd get. Plus "reduced fee" seems kind of vague.

I definitely echo what Solar Sailor and a couple of others have said already. I don't need more DG stuff so player's packs are fast reaching worthless to me. I just play tourneys for the format, not the material goods. I'd be all over playing for nothing (no trophy, payout or player's pack) for like whatever covers fees plus ~$5 or so. There's no way I'd play the OP's tourney b/c that's just too far to go to get a bunch of stuff I don't want to pay for.

 

[DavidSauls]

I would love to ask TDs about the possibility of playing "trophy only" but I'm not ready to receive the blank stares I'd get. Plus "reduced fee" seems kind of vague.

You wouldn't get a blank stare from me---just a "No". TD's discretion, and I don't need the extra bookkeeping.

 

[smyith]

Someone should page krupika. IOS series does $30 am events, 120% payout, and $10/15 in funny money. Then they offer (at least I believe they still do) $15 trophy only as well. Custom stamped discs for every event, lots of stock discs, and other goodies. Krupika and pitner do a fantastic job on top of it all.

 

[mattw]

Matt -

Here is something. What is your "magic number" for an event at which no "return hard good value" is expected? I believe that there are magic numbers for this. It may vary a little bit across North America, but I believe the numbers are:

Under $20 for a one round "event" (event fits inside a twenty dollar bill)
$25 for a two round event.

I believe up to those numbers (or substitute your own) it is entirely possible that those participating see the money leaving them to the event as freely given for the event and they no longer hold attachment to that money still being "their money". Freely given, value of participation, no expectations beyond possible Recognition.

At a certain number - many reading this will recognize this - there are those that will feel that "their money" is still out there in the event and has to "come back to them". The money in that cash box now has strings - and that tourney central is "holding their money" that they still feel ownership to, even though it was already given.

I am not sure what the cost is to participate in events in other areas of the country but if you are current with the PDGA two round sanctioned events for intermediate are around $35. Most of the events don't do players packs but have payouts in the form of vendor money. I would be fine with paying around around $20 for an event with no payout or players pack. I like the structure that events bring. Plus I feel pretty lucky the players in my area are great to be around. I have yet to play in a tourney and get stuck with a bad group.