Various Levels of Shoulder Open

[HyzerUniBomber]

Hey gang - thought this was interesting. GG's (top left) shoulders have been something I've been watching very closely lately and to my eyes, his "karate chop" with the off-arm was attempting to crack the whip handle and ultimately stop the left shoulder helping to swing the disc extension more forcefully outward. Extremely similar to Avery Jenkins style.
(seen here)

GG's extension is releasing forward with his eyes/head perpendicular to the line he's throwing on and shoulders perpendicular.

Simon (top middle) seem to pin the left should behind the left hip, creating a base of shoulder structure that remains put, but doesn't compress the chest. Shoulders somewhat open, with the eyes seem to be with the disc, if not slightly behind (shot dependent).

Wiggins Jr (top right) falls into the GG camp, with eyes perpendicular and shoulders slightly more open during extension.

Ezra (bottom), who's gotten quite a bit of note for being a huge arm - falls into the "very open to target" during extension, eyes / head with disc. Ezra seems to compress the left pec very actively in a way that the others do not, but I think it could also be why we see him throwing wide hyzers more often.

...

My personal experience (as of late) as a 45 yr old with somewhat poor flexibility is that the GG/Wiggins is very consistent in terms of power and balance and accuracy. I did a recent radar gun test: seen here and I was throwing much more like Ezra (eyes with disc, shoulders open) and SW22 mentioned that my shoulders could get more like Avery/GG and sure enough, next round ....

... my goal was to focus on my off arm staying behind the left hip and to stay perpendicular through the extension and eventually I was throwing some of the best shots I've felt in a few years.

 

[scooby snack]

Hey gang - thought this was interesting. GG's (top left) shoulders have been something I've been watching very closely lately and to my eyes, his "karate chop" with the off-arm was attempting to crack the whip handle and ultimately stop the left shoulder helping to swing the disc extension more forcefully outward. Extremely similar to Avery Jenkins style.
(seen here)

GG's extension is releasing forward with his eyes/head perpendicular to the line he's throwing on and shoulders perpendicular.

Simon (top middle) seem to pin the left should behind the left hip, creating a base of shoulder structure that remains put, but doesn't compress the chest. Shoulders somewhat open, with the eyes seem to be with the disc, if not slightly behind (shot dependent).

Wiggins Jr (top right) falls into the GG camp, with eyes perpendicular and shoulders slightly more open during extension.

Ezra (bottom), who's gotten quite a bit of note for being a huge arm - falls into the "very open to target" during extension, eyes / head with disc. Ezra seems to compress the left pec very actively in a way that the others do not, but I think it could also be why we see him throwing wide hyzers more often.

...

My personal experience (as of late) as a 45 yr old with somewhat poor flexibility is that the GG/Wiggins is very consistent in terms of power and balance and accuracy. I did a recent radar gun test: seen here and I was throwing much more like Ezra (eyes with disc, shoulders open) and SW22 mentioned that my shoulders could get more like Avery/GG and sure enough, next round ....

... my goal was to focus on my off arm staying behind the left hip and to stay perpendicular through the extension and eventually I was throwing some of the best shots I've felt in a few years.

Are you keeping the left arm still, while keeping it behind your left hip? Or are you pushing it backward?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I believe that GG / Avery are doing a karate chop style (call it what you will) that slings the left arm backwards. The Simon / Eagle McMahon style seems to be to lock it into place behind the left hip, firming it up or flexing the off-side muscles.

Personally, I was having no luck with the GG/Avery style. The timing of swinging the left arm backwards is tough, so I kept doing it too late, after the disc was gone. When I had the best success, it was when I tried to pin the left arm behind the left hip and keeping it firm/non-moving.

The over-riding feeling is that I'm looking sideways (like GG above) when the extension happens.

 

[axion]

So, I don't mean to de-rail this topic, but its kind of something I've been thinking about/dealing with for a while, and this image really shows it.

I have always had trouble throwing hyzer flips. I think hyzer, reach back hyzer, and then in my pull through, at a certain point i kind of stand up and throw it flat. I can throw a pure hyzer, out to the right, but never a hyzer flip. I can only throw a hyzer 330' or so, which is strange, because I can pull discs over 400+' if I throw them flat/turned over. Its like, when I throw a flex, i can feel the brace/push against it, when I throw a hzyer flip, I feel `leverage-less` and stand up.

I started noticing, on my anny's or flexes, i feel my arm get out ahead of my shoulders, like ive slung it out ahead of me. I cant see it past a certain point in my swing. Yet, when i throw a hyzer, or try to hyzer flip, im looking `forward` as the disc is out, like I can see it being released.

I started getting really good hyzerflips the other day, but just focusing on slinging my arm out ahead of my shoulders, but it was `feeling` like I was `keeping my head down`, even though that wasnt what I was attempting to do, since I know its not good to do that.


So all of this wall of text is me trying to work towards the question, at a certain point in the throw, the shoulders have to stop rotating so the lower arm can swing out in front, correct? So while not attempting to `look down`, in a hyzer I will at some point, *ideally* get into that GG type shoulder position where the disc is releasing before my head comes up/around.

 

[azplaya25]

Hey gang - thought this was interesting. GG's (top left) shoulders have been something I've been watching very closely lately and to my eyes, his "karate chop" with the off-arm was attempting to crack the whip handle and ultimately stop the left shoulder helping to swing the disc extension more forcefully outward. Extremely similar to Avery Jenkins style.
(seen here)

GG's extension is releasing forward with his eyes/head perpendicular to the line he's throwing on and shoulders perpendicular.

Simon (top middle) seem to pin the left should behind the left hip, creating a base of shoulder structure that remains put, but doesn't compress the chest. Shoulders somewhat open, with the eyes seem to be with the disc, if not slightly behind (shot dependent).

Wiggins Jr (top right) falls into the GG camp, with eyes perpendicular and shoulders slightly more open during extension.

Ezra (bottom), who's gotten quite a bit of note for being a huge arm - falls into the "very open to target" during extension, eyes / head with disc. Ezra seems to compress the left pec very actively in a way that the others do not, but I think it could also be why we see him throwing wide hyzers more often.

...

My personal experience (as of late) as a 45 yr old with somewhat poor flexibility is that the GG/Wiggins is very consistent in terms of power and balance and accuracy. I did a recent radar gun test: seen here and I was throwing much more like Ezra (eyes with disc, shoulders open) and SW22 mentioned that my shoulders could get more like Avery/GG and sure enough, next round ....

... my goal was to focus on my off arm staying behind the left hip and to stay perpendicular through the extension and eventually I was throwing some of the best shots I've felt in a few years.

Seems like the major difference is GG uses more of a Swedish technique closer to Feldy while Ezra is more like Mcbeth. Just doing that lever drill from Blake T's hammer pound post, I can feel that the lever really swing out nice and wide if I keep my left hand behind my hip like that. Very interesting.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Read the title of the thread, and just for an instant thought, "What strange @ss name for a tournament."
:doh:

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[navel]

Edit: Disregard my post above. First shot is Ricky, not Ezra. Although they are in the same position at the power pocket I want to get the facts right.

Also worth noting is how much "earlier" someone like GG achieves the power pocket when comparing to someone like Ricky.
I think that is what makes all the difference. Closed power pocket means closed shoulders at hit, open power pocket means open shoulders at hit. Everything is more closed vs more open. Not just the shoulders.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Where did that video come from? Looks interesting.

 

[sidewinder22]

Where did that video come from? Looks interesting.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138943

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Okay, so that's not Ricky and GG, that's Tristan and Ezra. Got it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Okay, so that's not Ricky and GG, that's Tristan and Ezra. Got it.

No, navel's image is labelled correct there with Rick and GG. A whole bunch of the top pros did the motion capture.

 

[navel]

Okay, so that's not Ricky and GG, that's Tristan and Ezra. Got it.

Sorry for the confusion. It's two screenshots from different videos. The one on the left is Ricky. The one on the right is GG, like it says in the picture. I just wanted to point out how the whole form needs to be more closed to the target in order for the hit to be more closed to the target. GG doesn't seem to have a perpendicular hitbox like Ricky, Ezra and McBeth. So the title could as well be "various levels of power pockets" and the examples would have been the same I guess?

 

[sidewinder22]

Or various levels of arm width or arm speed or horizontal abduction or elbow lead or moment arm.

 

[seedlings]

No, navel's image is labelled correct there with Rick and GG. A whole bunch of the top pros did the motion capture.

Who's analyzing the data and/or who's arranging the study?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Sorry for the confusion. It's two screenshots from different videos. The one on the left is Ricky. The one on the right is GG, like it says in the picture. I just wanted to point out how the whole form needs to be more closed to the target in order for the hit to be more closed to the target. GG doesn't seem to have a perpendicular hitbox like Ricky, Ezra and McBeth. So the title could as well be "various levels of power pockets" and the examples would have been the same I guess?

Do you have that video? I'd love to see it. Agree, you do tend see more of a walk through during the follow through when open and more balanced on the front side when closed.

The only thing that I think is completely different from what I had previously understood, was that I think GG / Avery in particular seem to be swinging the left arm to purposefully pull the left shoulder back as they're extending the disc forward.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Or various levels of arm width or arm speed or horizontal abduction or elbow lead or moment arm.

or turbo encabulator

 

[navel]

Do you have that video? I'd love to see it. Agree, you do tend see more of a walk through during the follow through when open and more balanced on the front side when closed.

The only thing that I think is completely different from what I had previously understood, was that I think GG / Avery in particular seem to be swinging the left arm to purposefully pull the left shoulder back as they're extending the disc forward.

I see. I think it has been talked about in the threads about the swim move and the rake.

This is all I have saved for now:

https://imgur.com/05ndDeG

https://imgur.com/JnkK243

There has been a few short clips on Instagram from various players. More to come. Tristan Tanner mentioned that there will be pressure plate readings as well.