what do the numbers (4,4,0,2) mean?

[shalomar]

What do the numbers associated with discs mean, e.g., Shark mid range (4,4,0,2)? Negative vs. positive? thx

 

[tbird888]

This should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Peter_LG]

Some places, like discgolfcenter.com (not a paid endorsement ) also include an extra number, a difficulty rating from 1 to 6. 1 is easiest to throw, 6 is most difficult. This may be useful as you research new discs.

http://www.discgolfcenter.com/main_displayProduct.php?p=30

 

[Smigles]

This should tell you all you need to know.

I know that it's Innova who does the ratings and it's their own homepage, but the speed description is just wrong.

"SPEED| Speed is the ability of the disc to cut through the air. Speed Ratings are listed from 1 to 13. Discs with high numbers are faster. Faster discs go farther into the wind with less effort. Slower discs take more power to throw, but have less of a chance to fly past the basket."


IMO speed mainly tells you about how fast (=far) you have to be able to throw for the disc to fly "normal". By normal i mean the disc does not just make the typical beginner hyzer. That's why beginners can control a slow disc like a putter or a mid earlier than they learn control over their big drivers.

It's ridiculous that Innova makes such blatant mistakes on their own homepage with the rating system they invented themself...

 

[eric40817]

Those difficulty ratings are entirely subjective and should be taken as such. Thing like nose angle sensativity can be a factor, but there are a lot of unknowns such as a person form, arm speed and snap, pivot, hip rotation, etc all play a factor. Just because a disc is rated with a 1 or 2, doesnt mean the disc is going to throw itself.

 

[bcr123psu]

To further complicate things for the new player, there are other rating systems out there beyond the four-number system:

Discraft's (which doesn't tell you much other than the net stability)
Joe's Universal Flight chart (which is a good resource)
inbounds inFlight Guide (used by some manufacturers in conjunction with the four-number system)

 

[IHearChains]

I know that it's Innova who does the ratings and it's their own homepage, but the speed description is just wrong.

"SPEED| Speed is the ability of the disc to cut through the air. Speed Ratings are listed from 1 to 13. Discs with high numbers are faster. Faster discs go farther into the wind with less effort. Slower discs take more power to throw, but have less of a chance to fly past the basket."


IMO speed mainly tells you about how fast (=far) you have to be able to throw for the disc to fly "normal". By normal i mean the disc does not just make the typical beginner hyzer. That's why beginners can control a slow disc like a putter or a mid earlier than they learn control over their big drivers.

It's ridiculous that Innova makes such blatant mistakes on their own homepage with the rating system they invented themself...

I think their description is accurate, just incomplete. Your statement is a good addition.

But I disagree with the notion that beginner hyzers = lack of control. A beginner who can throw a 150 ft hyzer with a Destroyer and park it most times IS controlling the disc, even if you feel its not a "normal" flight. Parking the disc under the basket is way more important than appealing to DGCR conformists feelings about disc choice.

 

[Questatement]

Then there's the inability to see how a disc should/will eventually fly to see what the 'true' numbers are when you're learning unless a more experienced player throws it for you.

 

[IHearChains]

Then there's the inability to see how a disc should/will eventually fly to see what the 'true' numbers are when you're learning unless a more experienced player throws it for you.

If someone is trying to learn disc golf on a course where no other players exist, and this person has no access to Youtube, then I guess I would see the significance of this problem.

If that more experienced player says "you threw the wrong disc" as that disc lies parked under the basket, that is just LOLworthy.

IMO this is the order of priorities in disc golf:
1. Have fun
2. Finish the hole (or course) in fewest throws
3. Get exercise and fresh air
4. Improve techniques
5. Learn new throws
...
...
...
645981. Throw the disc that DGCR self-appointed internet "experts" feel is the "proper" disc on a "normal" flight pattern. :|

 

[Declarkus]

"SPEED| Speed is the ability of the disc to cut through the air. Speed Ratings are listed from 1 to 13. Discs with high numbers are faster. Faster discs go farther into the wind with less effort. Slower discs take more power to throw, but have less of a chance to fly past the basket."

This is a weird way to explain it. Including wind into the description of speed confuses the issue. Fast discs don't go further with less effort, but they do fly "faster" in a headwind, because the headwind increases the relative speed of the disc. So the wind acts as a boost to arm speed. I've heard that pros (KC I think) like to use slower discs powered down into headwinds and let the wind bring the disc up to speed.

 

[Questatement]

I have two champ Valks, both max weight. Subjectively...

Newish CE is 9.5,4,0,3
Beat 5x is 8.5,5,-3,0

Just sayin'.

 

[Smigles]

discs fly as fast as you are able to throw them. You cant suddenly throw discs faster just cause you switch from a speed 8 to a speed 14 disc.

the speed number indicates how fast you have to throw the disc so that it flies like the stability, glide and fade numbers indicate.

 

[garublador]

"SPEED| Speed is the ability of the disc to cut through the air. Speed Ratings are listed from 1 to 13. Discs with high numbers are faster. Faster discs go farther into the wind with less effort. Slower discs take more power to throw, but have less of a chance to fly past the basket."

This is a weird way to explain it. Including wind into the description of speed confuses the issue. Fast discs don't go further with less effort, but they do fly "faster" in a headwind, because the headwind increases the relative speed of the disc. So the wind acts as a boost to arm speed. I've heard that pros (KC I think) like to use slower discs powered down into headwinds and let the wind bring the disc up to speed.

What they mean when they say that is that faster discs lose less distance into a headwind. In other words, they penetrate better into a headwind. So if you only throw a Destroyer 10' farther than a Teebird in calm conditions, you may throw it 30' farther in a 15MPH headwind (numbers totally made up). IMO, it's a more accurate description than what you get from 90%+ of people who try to describe disc speed.

"Faster" discs tend to be more difficult to throw and require more nose down and initial speed to fly as intended, but those are byproducts of a higher disc "speed," not a way to define "speed."

 

[garublador]

discs fly as fast as you are able to throw them. You cant suddenly throw discs faster just cause you switch from a speed 8 to a speed 14 disc.

the speed number indicates how fast you have to throw the disc so that it flies like the stability, glide and fade numbers indicate.

You're confusing the traditional definition of the word "speed" with the disc golf jargon word "speed." Innova defines the disc golf version well.

 

[Declarkus]

You're confusing the traditional definition of the word "speed" with the disc golf jargon word "speed." Innova defines the disc golf version well.

You spelled "weird" wrong.

Innova is confusng the definition to those trying to understand it. If it takes a team to explain what Innova meant when they wrote it, maybe it's definition is flawed.

 

[tbird888]

If you throw a Destroyer and a Roc the same distance, which one gets there the fastest?

 

[garublador]

You spelled "weird" wrong.

Innova is confusng the definition to those trying to understand it. If it takes a team to explain what Innova meant when they wrote it, maybe it's definition is flawed.

I think it's that people are trying to apply what they think speed means, which might be wrong, to Innova's definition rather than just trying to understand what they wrote. The definition isn't confusing if you don't try to read things into it that aren't there.

 

[Questatement]

discs fly as fast as you are able to throw them. You cant suddenly throw discs faster just cause you switch from a speed 8 to a speed 14 disc.

the speed number indicates how fast you have to throw the disc so that it flies like the stability, glide and fade numbers indicate.

Speed = manufacturer's numerically rated number
MPH = miles per hour
HSS = high speed stability
LSS = low speed stability
Glide = time disc flies relatively level within a narrow, left-to-right arc of its original trajectory.

If you throw a slower speed disc at the same MPH as a higher speed disc, both discs having the same HSS/LSS ratings, at the required MPH of the higher speed disc, the slower speed disc will give you more glide and less HSS than its ratings. LSS will likely also be reduced due to the HSS causing the disc to level out at a lower MPH before fading, giving the disc less time to fade.

If you throw a faster speed disc at the same MPH as a lower speed disc, at the required MPH of a the lower speed disc, the faster speed disc will give you less glide and more HSS than its ratings. LSS will likely also be increased due to the HSS causing the disc to level out (if at all) at a higher MPH before fading, giving the disc more time to fade.

 

[Declarkus]

"Faster" discs tend to be more difficult to throw and require more nose down and initial speed to fly as intended, but those are byproducts of a higher disc "speed," not a way to define "speed."

So higher speed discs require higher speeds, but that isn't a way to define it? Weird.

I think it's that people are trying to apply what they think speed means, which might be wrong, to Innova's definition rather than just trying to understand what they wrote. The definition isn't confusing if you don't try to read things into it that aren't there.

Guess I'm guilty. This is the part I considered weird:
"Faster discs go farther into the wind with less effort. Slower discs take more power to throw"

Technically slower discs go further into the wind with less effort. It's an abbreviated, generalized explaination lacking a better explanation of flight dynamics more tailored for a beginner.

I understand what Innova was trying to do. Unfortunately, I'm afraid they might just be confusing beginners, the audience most in need of a rating system that is easy to understand.

 

[disctildeath]

Just think of speed as really a question of "how wide is the rim"? That's why the Boss is touted as faster than a Destroyer but even most pros choose that over the Boss. The one exception are the mid-ranges, Innova typically lists all large mids as 4 and smalls as 5, but most will throw a Shark, Roc, etc farther than a Cro or Gator.