Backhand 1357

[hawgdriver]

I'm pretty happy with the consistency and accuracy of my drives. I just feel like I need a bit more power and speed out of my drives though.
https://youtu.be/FpzLOd8j2rg

What seems to be the biggest power leaks in my throw? For me I think/it seems like my reachback is early. That could really reduce power quite a bit.

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Take with a grain of salt, you have better form than me and throw a bit farther than me. But as far as credentials go, I'm also a stone cold master of the 'find what's different in these two pictures' Highlights magazine game.

So I'm watching you and watching an Eagle/GG vid.

Here's the Eagle/GG vid. Go to 6:13 if the link doesn't. https://youtu.be/WWr1bI-VMKI?t=373

What I see from these pros is a lot of remaining potential energy in the still-loaded reachback even though the hip turn (most evident by the heel angle) is well underway.

In your vid, at 0:19 and about 6-10 frames (.33 s), you can use < and > keys to advance by frame in y/t for any who didn't know, compare what happens with you vs. Eagle and GG.

Seems to me that perhaps you could delay your pull and keep a max reachback a frame or two in relation to the beginning of your hip turn. Angle makes it a bit tough to say for sure, but food for thought. Hey, at least try it and see what you think.

Another thing I noticed was forward-momentum follow-through. Your form is excellent overall. But I think if you are asking about distance, maybe you can get even more weight on the forward leg by finishing more forward. Notice in the vid how GG and Eagle (Eagle's form is closest to yours in this regard, but even with his, his center of mass continues to move toward the target after release more than it appears yours does)--notice how they both carry momentum forward of their front plant leg.

This is shown really well in Ezra's latest 'how I duz distance' video. Notice how he lets his momentum carry him forward with some abandon.

Perhaps not ideal for accuracy and form, but something to consider for fieldwork and tweaking form to improve baseline power.

https://youtu.be/PgiNjVzvR9Q?t=424

Hope there's at least a glimmer of a nugget in there.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Take with a grain of salt, you have better form than me and throw a bit farther than me. But as far as credentials go, I'm also a stone cold master of the 'find what's different in these two pictures' Highlights magazine game.



So I'm watching you and watching an Eagle/GG vid.



Here's the Eagle/GG vid. Go to 6:13 if the link doesn't. https://youtu.be/WWr1bI-VMKI?t=373



What I see from these pros is a lot of remaining potential energy in the still-loaded reachback even though the hip turn (most evident by the heel angle) is well underway.



In your vid, at 0:19 and about 6-10 frames (.33 s), you can use < and > keys to advance by frame in y/t for any who didn't know, compare what happens with you vs. Eagle and GG.



Seems to me that perhaps you could delay your pull and keep a max reachback a frame or two in relation to the beginning of your hip turn. Angle makes it a bit tough to say for sure, but food for thought. Hey, at least try it and see what you think.



Another thing I noticed was forward-momentum follow-through. Your form is excellent overall. But I think if you are asking about distance, maybe you can get even more weight on the forward leg by finishing more forward. Notice in the vid how GG and Eagle (Eagle's form is closest to yours in this regard, but even with his, his center of mass continues to move toward the target after release more than it appears yours does)--notice how they both carry momentum forward of their front plant leg.



This is shown really well in Ezra's latest 'how I duz distance' video. Notice how he lets his momentum carry him forward with some abandon.



Perhaps not ideal for accuracy and form, but something to consider for fieldwork and tweaking form to improve baseline power.



https://youtu.be/PgiNjVzvR9Q?t=424



Hope there's at least a glimmer of a nugget in there.

Really appreciate the help thanks!

Yeah I think your first point could be fixed by delaying the reachback, since mine is a little early

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[hawgdriver]

Really appreciate the help thanks!

Yeah I think your first point could be fixed by delaying the reachback, since mine is a little early

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Keep us posted on progress!

"Delay reachback" if that mental idea gets the right result. Personally, I wouldn't know how to do that, but I would be able to stay extended longer after initiating my turn (or hip drive). I wouldn't know how to delay reachback because I feel like I "freeze" the disc in space and let my body continue to move forward. I would be curious if a more active reachback prevents arm relaxation--or if we are describing the exact same thing just using different words.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Keep us posted on progress!

"Delay reachback" if that mental idea gets the right result. Personally, I wouldn't know how to do that, but I would be able to stay extended longer after initiating my turn (or hip drive). I wouldn't know how to delay reachback because I feel like I "freeze" the disc in space and let my body continue to move forward. I would be curious if a more active reachback prevents arm relaxation--or if we are describing the exact same thing just using different words.

Yeah I'm going to the field tomorrow morning

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[sidewinder22]

It looks like you are reaching or extending downward, instead of further back. Try staying a little more upright and holding the disc higher - door frame drill.

 

[Sirlordcomic]

Oh yeah. Now I'm finally seeing the fundamental difference. The top pros are definitely keeping that rear knee stack on the rear foot for longer.

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I keep coming back to this and as a squash player I see a direct correlation to rhbh from squash to disc golf. This is specific to squash because while we sprint often, ultimately the goal is to relocate to a position for a clean hit full power with accuracy swing.

Thus we aren't doing a lot of x-stepping into a shot - squash players are doing tons of standstill one leg drills IMHO. Stepping out with right leg, hips loaded, racket back and up, and crushing the ball. Granted in squash we have a longer lever with the racket so we get lots of power from just rotation. Hey did anyone see Tanner warming up with a badminton racket on YT?

My point is that back leg load and coiled core/hips is so important for power but I myself find my form to sometimes suffer when I have an over-zealous run up. We almost pass over the loaded energy in the back leg, quite literally.


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[NoseDownKing]

It looks like you are reaching or extending downward, instead of further back. Try staying a little more upright and holding the disc higher - door frame drill.

Would this time my reachback better instead of being early? Is there something else I should do to time my reachback so that it peaks when the front heel hits the ground?

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[NoseDownKing]

Would this time my reachback better instead of being early? Is there something else I should do to time my reachback so that it peaks when the front heel hits the ground?

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Maybe think about it like arm is slightly bent when front toes touch the ground. Heel down extends the arm straight

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[sidewinder22]

Would this time my reachback better instead of being early? Is there something else I should do to time my reachback so that it peaks when the front heel hits the ground?

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Try pumping a straight arm/disc forward or just pumping a bent elbow forward. Your arm/disc just kind of hangs down straight the whole time.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/JuYk9AkYysQ

Better angle considering my early reachback issue. Looks like my early reachback is caused by me leaning back slightly from the x-step. Or is there something else to my early reach?

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[NoseDownKing]

Would think that a shorter x-step would help, but Eagle for example has a pretty big x-step and he's not behind the back leg at all. How does he do that?

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[hawgdriver]

my early reachback

don't hate on me, but could you be really precise on what you mean by this? Could you define 'reachback' in your context and why you think it is early?

I ask because you have this whole swing thing that is really dope af and complex. I see some things and you see some things and etc., but I want to focus on your gut feel first.

 

[NoseDownKing]

don't hate on me, but could you be really precise on what you mean by this? Could you define 'reachback' in your context and why you think it is early?



I ask because you have this whole swing thing that is really dope af and complex. I see some things and you see some things and etc., but I want to focus on your gut feel first.

My reachback peaks before my front foot plants. You can see that my arm is fully extended before the plant. I hdon't think that I start reaching back early. It's just that for some reason I finish the reachback too early.

Now I'm pretty positive that the reasoning behind this is, that I come out of the x-step leaning back away from the target somewhat. As I begin my reachback when I'm leaned back, the disc stays too far back. So obviously when I begin the reachback too far back, it going to peak early. This is also why I'm reaching back downwards, or at least I think so.

Now I'm trying to fix the coming out of the x-step balance issue to see if that helps with the reachback. Hope this makes any sence what so ever lol.

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[hawgdriver]

My reachback peaks before my front foot plants. You can see that my arm is fully extended before the plant. I hdon't think that I start reaching back early. It's just that for some reason I finish the reachback too early.

Now I'm pretty positive that the reasoning behind this is, that I come out of the x-step leaning back away from the target somewhat. As I begin my reachback when I'm leaned back, the disc stays too far back. So obviously when I begin the reachback too far back, it going to peak early. This is also why I'm reaching back downwards, or at least I think so.

Now I'm trying to fix the coming out of the x-step balance issue to see if that helps with the reachback. Hope this makes any sence what so ever lol.

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Yeah ok totally makes sense and agree with your diagnosis. I saw same thing too with downwards/upwards angle and was going to comment on that, great that you see it as all part of one interconnected thing (it wouldn't have occurred to me).

Maybe consider coming out of your x-step with your rear plant foot more perpendicular to the target line, and less 180° out. The camera angle makes it hard to be more precise about this, but check some pro footage and see if you agree with this idea.

 

[hawgdriver]

Eh, nm. Watching a bunch of power drives from lead card and Eagle at the Preserve, there's a lot of 135° to 150° rear foot plant angle.

 

[hawgdriver]

You know what I'd do?

Visualize a moment when your forward plant foot is beginning to accept all the weight that's being passed from the rear--maybe it has 20 pounds of your 170 pounds or whatever. Imagine or visualize at that moment that you have maximum extension from your right index finger knuckle to that forward foot pad.

Kind of like this

https://imgur.com/a/19Eb0kU

And just move yourself with your reachback and x-step and so on, just to get into that loaded moment. The important part being the synchronous forward foot pressure at 10% weight shift and maximum arm extension.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/fVzsw_s8hRg

Maybe a better angle to critique. Drives are consistent, but still need a little more distance. I tried turning back more, but seemed not to help. The early reachback timing thing is obviously still an issue. I tried doing a more exaggerated forward pump, but it just made me rush things more.

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[sidewinder22]

Camera from behind tee might help see your balance on your rear leg better.

Note in frame 1 how you are more leaning back behind your rear foot and Simon is balanced more right on his foot or slightly forward of rear foot. Then this reverses in the stride as you start tipping over while Simon's upper body is pulled back like Door Frame Drill.

Your feet are separating ahead of your knees. Simon's knees separate ahead of the feet.

Note how your front foot kicks out and leads your stride/CoG/butt/knee and then your foot stalls out and retracts right before planting. Note how Simon's front foot keeps gliding targetward into the plant.

 

[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/wJXXiQM_3pQ
Eagle at 0:35

Looking at Eagle I think I found out where my issue originates from. Eagle really pushes off or falls butt first off of the right leg in the x-step, forcing his body to be infront of the left leg.

Does this make sence?

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[NoseDownKing]

https://youtu.be/Hz_ln2VKrJ4

This might be better to see Eagle falling butt first from the right leg during the x-step. I don't fall off of the right leg at all I kind of reach with my left leg behind the right, forcing my body behind the left leg.

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