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Maybe GYRO is Just a Gimmick...
- Thread starter brutalbrutus
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"More gyroscopic than..." is a phrase that's been thrown around a few times in this thread without enough specificity.
Same flight plate, heavier rim is more gyroscopically stable than same flight plate and lighter rim.
Same rim, heavier flight plate is more gyroscopically stable than same ram, lighter flight plate.
I think the important question that no one is touching is: Is a 155g MVP driver more gyroscopically stable than a 155g single-mold driver of similar profile? That's the important one, isn't it? If you like throwing lighter discs, then your calculations should be made between multiple discs of the same weight, not between multiple weights of the same disc.
Well, I am a highschool physics teacher. When I say "more gyroscopic" I'd call that clear enough. To be more specific I could say that it "conserves its angular momentum" better than another object. The math behind this stuff isn't that complex.
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I only bag two mvp molds. The Envy and Volt. Which i feel are both just absolutely incredible discs. I don't believe for a second gyro has anything to do with it. They just happen to be great molds. I throw mostly FH approach shots and before i bagged the envy i was using a beat D Zone. I have an electron envy that just shapes the prettiest lines imaginable. And as for the Volt i truly feel it is the faster teebird we've always wanted. I play heavily wooded courses and the volt is incredible at hitting tight gaps and still getting sneaky distance for a slower driver.
Yeah, I was arguing more against people dismissing gyro just because "5% is small". When you consider the realities of throwing a disc, even if a disc has a higher MoI, it will still take more torque to accelerate it to an equivalent RPM.
Maybe the best way to describe my opinion on gyro is:
At the practical level where I decide what discs make it in my bag I don't worry about the gyro effects because my inconsistencies outweigh the small differences. When I think about the physics of flight at the theoretical level it is hard to dismiss it because I know there is some difference, and when I'm hungry gyro always sounds good.
Agreed. Just using disc weight as an example of a metric where people definitely do care about changes of less than 5%
Give the phase a whirl. Its ability to fight out of a karate chop anny is right between a flick and a machete for me.
I've owned and bagged quite a few gyro molds -- Wave, Vanish, Photon, Defy, Tesla (yuck), Virus (double yuck), Envy, and Proxy. Might be more that I'm just not thinking of. Currently I still bag two of those (Vanish and Proxy). There are three molds that to me do seem distinctly different than any traditional one-piece discs:
Wave - this mold is ridiculously straight for a high speed (11-12ish) driver. Very little turn or fade on a clean 330'-375' throw. More power than that though and it gets squirrelly.
Envy - fantastic amount of HSS for a putter. Can be thrown into a decent headwind and still hold the line. Can be torqued forehand and still hold the line. Healthy amount of fade, but not nearly as much as you'd expect given the 0 turn.
Proxy - this one is in my bag currently. It is the straightest disc I've ever thrown from a flat release -- 0 turn and darn near 0 fade. Can hold its own in a headwind, but not as much as the Envy.
The Wave might be an anomaly -- just a disc that flies straight for people at a very specific arm speed/throwing style combo. But Proxies and Envies are a different story, and are clearly two data points in favor of gyro magic. I've seen too many people that can't throw putters be able to throw those dead straight. Maybe the gyro effect is just strongest in slower molds? I think most gyro-throwers would agree that driving putters are the strength of the MVP/Axiom product line.
Wave - this mold is ridiculously straight for a high speed (11-12ish) driver. Very little turn or fade on a clean 330'-375' throw. More power than that though and it gets squirrelly.
Envy - fantastic amount of HSS for a putter. Can be thrown into a decent headwind and still hold the line. Can be torqued forehand and still hold the line. Healthy amount of fade, but not nearly as much as you'd expect given the 0 turn.
Proxy - this one is in my bag currently. It is the straightest disc I've ever thrown from a flat release -- 0 turn and darn near 0 fade. Can hold its own in a headwind, but not as much as the Envy.
The Wave might be an anomaly -- just a disc that flies straight for people at a very specific arm speed/throwing style combo. But Proxies and Envies are a different story, and are clearly two data points in favor of gyro magic. I've seen too many people that can't throw putters be able to throw those dead straight. Maybe the gyro effect is just strongest in slower molds? I think most gyro-throwers would agree that driving putters are the strength of the MVP/Axiom product line.
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So, you are THE authority on what "more like a gyroscope" means? BTW, do you need a degree in physics to be a physics teacher?
Well I don't know how it works everywhere, but in Washington you do, and I do.
And to expand...
I don't claim to be THE AUTHORITY on anything, but I'd say that the majority of people would be able to interpret that accurately. I mean that with all other factors remaining constant, a higher percentage of an object's mass is moved away from its rotational axis. Maybe that isn't "specific" enough for some, but with the complexity of the physics that go into real-world disc flights, I think it is specific enough for our narrow purposes. Seems like people are trying to argue without an actual point.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
LOL... gotta love 80s action shlock
If you've never seen this channel before check it out. This is one of the playlists called Best of the Worst and they did a review of Hard Ticket...
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That's because those are their best two molds.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
If you were talking about the original Volt, I'd agree. Insanity and Crave are better molds than the newer Volt.
Wait there's a new one!? Is there a shift in gyro because the original bombs... mother ****a!
Goodman me an my first runs, I'm so outta date!
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
They got more OS after the first year or so. I lost my FR not long after the Glow ones had came out and when I got one of those, it was a different disc and all the neutrons and protons I've thrown since have been that way. The plasmas have a little drift but not as much. I hear the Fission volts fly close to what the FRs did but I've never thrown one personally.
...and don't get me wrong, the newer volts are a great disc too but I think the Crave and Insanity are better. But they aren't better than those originals Volts, Those things were made for my throwing style.
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Casey 1988
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
Do not forget that MVP/Axiom are not the only ones with a edge of wing/rim with gyro tech. I think Yikun discs is the other still making discs this way with a different attachment system for its discs to avoid a lawsuit the way Latitude 64 and the trilogy had for the few molds made the same way as MVP/Axiom made during a blank spot before the old patent got renewed.
STOP POSTING FALSE INFORMATION!
https://www.latitude64.se/latitude-64/latitude-64-retires-2k-and-hex-discs/
Why are we retiring all the 2K molds?
The overmold project was an exciting technology that we enjoyed mastering. The visuals were certainly pleasing. However our tests shows that the actual benefits in disc flights are not enough to make a noticeable difference. Besides that the overmold technology presented us with inconsistency problems. From now on we will be fully focused on making the best flying, most consistent, and good looking discs in one piece.
Edit: This literally took me less then a minute to google latitude 64 overmold.
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I like how they say "enjoyed mastering" then go on to say it "presented inconsistency problems" haha. Doesn't sound like they mastered it to me!
Interesting take on it though, makes you wonder if they didn't come up with a good enough design or if gyro is just a gimmick. Or if their ultimate goal was measured in distance (or flight path) and if perhaps the hassle and cost were too much and that's a cute little slam against all things gyro. IE costs too much to make, minor improvements in flight, so let's just say it sucks and drop the overmold line.
Interesting take on it though, makes you wonder if they didn't come up with a good enough design or if gyro is just a gimmick. Or if their ultimate goal was measured in distance (or flight path) and if perhaps the hassle and cost were too much and that's a cute little slam against all things gyro. IE costs too much to make, minor improvements in flight, so let's just say it sucks and drop the overmold line.
