To smoke, or not to smoke, that is the question

[simpletwist]

Here in Western NY several courses are impacted by a county ban on smoking in its parks. No one pays any attention.

 

[gianetics]

Smoking is much more dangerous than many other things that illegal, or other substances that are "controlled". The only difference is the giant industry that has surrounded smoking since before it's health effects were known.

I personally wish it were illegal nationally, not just in specific places. I've seen too many people with terrible quality of life at age 50-60 due to their smoking, to be persuaded it should be left alone. I can't help picturing every smoker I see with supplemental O2, and a giant barrel chest, asking during rounds if they can go outside and have a smoke. It's quite sobering. There is such great help out there too in the form of medications and classes, that it is ridiculous for this to be such a large problem in this day and age.

man jumping in to it after 3 post i like that (really). my mother was raised in communist Romania. you would fit right in there. what happend to personal choice? smoking is bad, but so is drinking and fast food. thats what i brought up earlier when does it end. yes smoking costs tax payers a lot of money but obesity does not? lets ban or tax the crap out of mcdonalds. im amazed few see the relationship between the two.

 

[prerube]

agreed! however discussion is good, we all have the right to agree and disagree thats what makes for good debate. furthermore i can also link a ton of useless bias info as well
http://www.freedom-of-choice.com/AS3.htm

http://www.forces.org/evidence/evid/second.htm

those took like 2.4 seconds to link.

this is a complicated subject that is multifaceted. so guys dont yell at me because u solved the issue at hand, because the US government hasn't solved it yet. so stick a fork in it.


side bet, when will this thread be shut down. im guessing 845 pm pacific standard time.

You want to get into a link war?
PDGA SMOKING BAN

SMOKING BANNED!

Smoking on the course #1

Smoking on the course #2

If you could change a rule? (smoking rule)

Do you care about the image (some smoking, but quickly turned into a MJ thread

Dumbest rule (once again smoking)

What is holding DG back (smoking)

 

[gianetics]

heck no i was talking about holo when it came to the links. i agreed with you about the futility about the discussion here but disagreed about the need. getting into a link war with prerube is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

 

[prerube]

haha, the drug thread was a little slow, so I decided to have fun with this one.

 

[CyclistOK]

man jumping in to it after 3 post i like that (really). my mother was raised in communist Romania. you would fit right in there. what happend to personal choice? smoking is bad, but so is drinking and fast food. thats what i brought up earlier when does it end. yes smoking costs tax payers a lot of money but obesity does not? lets ban or tax the crap out of mcdonalds. im amazed few see the relationship between the two.

Communist? lolcatz

1) I never said drinking wasn't bad. I never said Fast food or obesity wasn't bad either. I see plenty of people killing themselves with those too. I'm fine with incentivizing people to make healthier choices, however smoking and alcohol are fundamentally different in that they have more obvious effects on other people (SHS, DWI)

2) Oddly enough there is an arguement that smoking decreases health care costs due to premature deaths and the lack of extended care further on in life. I'm not quite sure I buy that though... Either way, my argument doesnt come from a monetary perspective.

3)I'm of the opinion that your personal freedom stops where mine begins. Of course where that line is drawn is up to the government. In various different ways, alcohol consumption is regulated, from taxes to consequences associated with its use (DWI or DUI never really understood that difference, and public intoxication). Smoking, being that it's health effects are mediated through an airborne mechanism, is more apt to affect the health of people who choose not to smoke than alcohol is to affect those who choose not to drink, or obesity is to affect those who eat healthy. That's not to say alcohol and obesity don't affect other people, it's just not so directly for the majority of people who do not fall into those categories.

BTW, those electronic cigarettes are great. I've seen alot of people use them to help quit.

 

[prerube]

but the PDGA says they do not want an image of smoking, so disc golfers can not use harmless electric cigarettes.

 

[codus1984]

^same thing at the factory i work at...they don't like it...and props on the "who got da lighter?"

 

[CyclistOK]

but the PDGA says they do not want an image of smoking, so disc golfers can not use harmless electric cigarettes.

Try nicotine gum? Make sure you use it properly though, most people don't.

 

[codus1984]

i say a dip a chew!!! yum...ya don't like smoke ya say??? how bout watchin me spit large amounts of brown spit over and over again!! yum!

 

[prerube]

I doubt I would like it, I don't smoke. I once tried an E-cig just to see what it was like and I blew into it and got nicotine water all over my fingers.

 

[craftsman]

People in this thread make me miss the hippies :/

 

[WillGrrr]

I'm that old, tree-hugger type, always policed my own butts and sometimes others. Don't be a litterbug.

My single greatest regret in life is that I took up smoking as a teenager. That's my #1. Don't smoke.

The electronic cigarettes can be very helpful in quitting smoking. They have been for me.

My rights as a smoker (now a 'vaper') always felt more and more impinged upon as local bans grew indoors and out. But this is one health issue that has been pressed hard, even strictly through the PDGA, and there's no serious opposition to it.

 

[oneshotleft]

No point

I'm don't think I'm gonna try to make any points but I do have a story.

I turned 50 this year, and I tried my first (stolen) cigg at about age 8 or 9 in our backyard sandbox. I was a real smoker, fully inhaling, by the time I was 15 years old. I loved cigarettes...Marlboro Reds, Mmmmm Right? I remember I was at boarding school and we used to have "Smoke Races" you would draw on the cigg., inhale, and exhale through your nose as fast as you could until you burned down to the name. The filter would become black/brown small and hard.

I quit a few times over the next few decades each time for for only a little while. The longest was almost two years in the late 80's, My best friend convinced me to join a Health Club and "work out". This was also my introduction to Collection Agencies but that should be another post. The odd thing regarding all those times I had quit before is that what I remember most is how Delicious that first smoke was when I restarted....smooooth, went down like silk, hello old friend. This was usually accompanied with Booze....Peas and Carrots, Peaches and Cream, Beer and Smokes Yo!

I was 2 to 2.5 packs/day when last I "quit", I would not go to bed unless I had at least half a pack for the morning.

What I did wasn't so much "quitting" as it was "Addiction Modification". I realized I had better stop if I wanted to see my kids grow up, and Physically be able to do the things I wanted for a quality life. I also accepted that I love(d) smoking and was addicted.

My Brilliant answer, you ask? Cigars. Yep big, ugly, stinky, fat, inconvenient Cigars. At first I would Puff on 'em a bit but later found that I would only need to hold it in my mouth unlit or only in my hand while driving for example.

It was during this time something great happened. My friend asked, for the umpteenbillionth time, if I would like to try his "disc golf" thing. Prior to that when he would ask, I would convince him to play Ball Golf so I had never played. This time he pointed out that the Course was on a mountain and had the added benefit of good exercise. I decided it was a good way to spend a Saturday and I was already breathing better from less smoking.

I was given 3 discs and I couldn't throw back hand at all. I was able to flick a little and proceeded to get some 25ish over par....true love.

The next morning I patently waited in the parking lot until the employee arrived to open the only local store that sells discs. Thank G they were open on Sun. I Realized that the exchange rate for Discs and Smokes was around 3 packs per Disc+/-. I could get almost a disc a day for not smoking. I bought 6 discs and a starter bag Woot Woot! I was so happy. I soon put the Cigars down for good as they were just to inconvenient.

I have been playing for almost 2.5 years now, Smoke free. Since then I have played in around 40 local Tournaments and 8 PDGA events.

Smoking for Disc Golf....the best trade I've ever made.

 

[kutz167]

this kind of thing pisses me off. im guessing maybe 5-10 percent of the population smoke (myself included) so how is it fair that the other 90-95 percent can make laws that affect the few. its utilitarian garbage. i thought immanuel Kant blew utilitarianism out of the water a long time ago. i agree indoors it should be banned. but outside, is crazy. and dont give the the second hand smoke crap. the largest scale study on second hand smoke that all these a-holes tout as proof, in its own scientists and authors words stated the the results are inconclusive and further studies need to be done. im paraphrasing here "you should have rights as extensive as possible without impeding on the rights of someone else". your want to not smell cigarettes does not outweigh my right to smoke. I am a responsible smoker i clean all my buts up and try to not smoke near non-smokers. i know a lot are not considerate and you should get tickets for littering. Sometimes i feel like a second rate citizen for smoking.

While you do have the right to kill yourself in whatever way you choose, your right to smoke ends where it starts affecting the health of others. Your rights stop where the other guy's rights begin. So to say that his right to not smell cigarette smoke that more than likely causes cancer does not outweigh your "right" to influence his health is ignorant and reveals that you are not a "responsible smoker". This is a country ruled by the majority (at least a lot of the time), so how is it fair for 10% to override 90%? For certain people cigarette smoke will cause debilitating asthma attacks or other negative health effects. I grew up in a household with smoking, and even with that, every time I smell cigarette smoke, I get nauseous.

If you want to smoke, go for it; but don't get upset when someone asks you to not do it around them (you don't know if it physically hurts them).

 

[prerube]

this kind of thing pisses me off. im guessing maybe 5-10 percent of the population smoke (myself included) so how is it fair that the other 90-95 percent can make laws that affect the few.

ummmm majority rules, it is sort of the backbone of democracy.

 

[prerube]

95% of the smokers I have played with have asked permission to smoke, even thought they do not have to. They smoke over 10 feet away from me. If you are outdoors and it is allowed in the park, go ahead and smoke a cigarette. People do it outside resturants, playgrounds, and everywhere else.

The only time I have a problem is when smoking is banned in the park or it is during an event such as worlds where it is banned. then you are purposfully breaking the rules while playing disc golf and you are making disc golfers look bad.

I have to teach my school kids "Smokers are not bad" and some teachers give me dirty looks. I have to say, "Smokers are not bad people, many of you have family members who smoke. Uncle Bob is not a bad guy because he smokes, he just has a bad habit that some people do not like." It looks like I may have to give DGCR the same lecture.

CheifStang, simpletwist, and ginetics are not bad because they smoke, they are just good guys who are bad at disc golf

....just kidding fellas

 

[Brokensaint]

Chiming in. I'm a smoker, for more years than I like to admit. There are no positives to smoking cigarettes, other than my own peace of mind in the moments of smoking. Tell your kids. It's a nasty habit that has been very hard for me to drop (3 attempts over the years, none of which have stuck yet). I have no problem at all not smoking in bars and restaurants. Make sense, and I can always just step outside if the monkey starts screeching. When it comes to DG, I am about 98% excellent at pinching out the ember, stepping on it and putting the butt in my bag until I get to a trash can. Maybe even 99%. (I'd say 100 but why risk lying? Tell the truth and shame the devil, right?) I try to be extra-responsible about littering. I also always ask if people mind my smoking when playing with or around people I don't know. I never leave water bottles, beer cans/bottles, etc on the ground. But I think that outdoor smoking bans are pointless. Where I live it is legal to burn trash on your property. Trash. I'm less than a mile from a steel mill. There is much industry near me, so there is a density of diesel vehicles on the roads around me. I'm not arguing that smoking isn't bad, just that some of the second-hand smoke arguments are out of context.
And I don't think a ban in a park would be well-enforced anyway. (wait, do i smell a skunk? Nope, just skunk-Y!)
Last thought: I like a clean, well-kept park as well. I see beverage containers as a much more common problem than cigarette butts.

 

[mndiscg]

Smoking should be illegal everywhere including private homes.

 

[gianetics]

really we are still going round and round with this one. great topic for a dg website. is smoking a right or privileged? where does personal accountability clash with the role of government? average male life expectancy in Italy is 79.4 years. life expectancy in the us for males is 76.6 years. in italy 24.2 percent of male population smoke and in the US 17.5 percent smoke. a lot of this info came from the CDC. so maybe you should take a look at yourself before your cast judgement on someone else. PEACE!