Lakeshore, CA

China Peak DGC

Seasonal course
4.55(based on 8 reviews)
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7 0
Grok Lobster
Experience: 37.9 years 20 played 6 reviews
4.50 star(s)

Epic in more ways than one... 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 31, 2019 Played the course:once

Pros:

As the title says, this course is absolutely amazing! Caveat - you'd better be a damn good player especially with uphill and downhill drives at altitude.
Ride a ski chairlift up for 1 mile - about 20 minutes, and then play mostly downhill for 4 hours minimum.
To avoid the worst part of the course (lost discs), play 1 & 2 then proceed to 11. You still might lose discs.

Cons:

$21 chair lift to get to the 1st tee - don't even think about trying to walk up.
There are some really stupid hole designs (and I normally love stupid), particularly on the front 9. Even if you are a damn good player, you can expect to spend a lot of time searching for discs. A spotter, or even two, is highly recommended.
Course is deteriorating rapidly and will likely never be maintained. If it's on your wish-list, you should play next year (2020). It may not be playable after that.
Too much trash (beer cans/bottles) left on the course by golfers. Pack your trash!!! I found an unopened beer and had to leave it because my extra bag was already full!

Other Thoughts:

It's open during the summer and weekends only.
It's a hike! About 7 miles, with lots of elevation change - 1 mile vertical overall.
If I lived in the area (1/2 hour), I would play it a few times over the summer. To me it is not worth a 6 hour drive to go back.
To avoid the worst part of the course (lost discs), play 1 & 2 then proceed to 11. You still might lose discs.
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14 1
The Katana Kid
Gold level trusted reviewer
Experience: 8.4 years 184 played 56 reviews
3.50 star(s)

A tale of 2 extremes: An unforgettable experience of epic shots with majestic natural beauty and poor maintenance with some design that's only for elite players 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Sep 23, 2018 Played the course:once

Pros:

It's really cool that two reviews here were from those involved in designing and creating this course. They are both well worth the read before you visit China Peak.

The course map and score card is high quality with elevation changes on each hole. There's not much cell signal here so either print out the course map or download it to your phone, you'll need it.

Hole 11 is the best epic shot. It is breathtaking to look down from the top of a ski run and see a basket at the bottom nestled into a cluster of trees. My second shot covered most of the 1,000 feet down that hill. It's really pretty seeing a disc's flight wind down the hill if you get the right nose and release angle, with no wind. I was lucky that my RHFH turned over at the end and found a way perfectly through the trees on the left side and made it back to the fairway.

Hole 23 is the second most epic shot. You are teeing off from the top of a bluff and throwing down the hill to a dogleg to the right. I like this one since it favors my RHFH and it's fun to watch that disc glide so long and far.

Hole 2 is the third most epic, but we couldn't see the basket hidden in the trees at the bottom of the hill. My second throw from the tee, however, sailed all the way down and I had a look at the basket once I was down there.

Hole 27 is my fourth favorite, even though I complain in my CONS about the dead tree blocking my go to RHFH, which I blame for my only lost disc of the day.

There is so much EPIC disc golf at China Peak that I started to wonder if I was going to get EPIC OVERLOAD.

Cons:

Since my review score is lower than any other review of China Peak I am going to detail my CONS by category since I expect that a lower score may cause askance for some.

Maintenance

We looked for the first basket for 20 minutes before we finally found it inside a giant bush turned sideways. I realize that it's September and we're at the end of the disc golf season, but this didn't just happen. That bush was growing in and around that basket, which would take months to happen. If there was any attention paid to this course then this could not be left unattended for months.

The 27th hole has a dead tree leaning in front of the tee. If you are RHBH this is no problem, but if you're RHFH, like me, this is a bummer since the tree is leaning from the left and taking away the perfect line for an epic downhill shot. The scorecard says it's a 33 foot elevation up, but that's a misprint. It is a 133 foot drop, as Leonard the designer says in his review. I tried to work around the dead tree with a S curve on my RHFH, which was looking pretty good until it didn't turn over and come back to the right. It ended up deep into that forest on the left and down the hill, becoming the only plastic I left at China Peak. There aren't enough trash cans. We started picking up trash, which is sad to see in such a beautiful part of nature, but gave up after awhile.

Tee signs
Tee signs on this course are very important since you cannot see the basket from many of the tees. The tee signs do not give detail of each hole, as a good tee sign should, but only gives a general idea of where the basket. The result is that you'll find yourself guessing on your drive during your first round, but on this course most of us will only play one round since we have to go so far to get there. So before you come you should study the pictures on this site since the red boxes and red lines kind of show you where to throw. Hole 3, for example, was impossible for us to figure out. Based on the course map, which is a very good, downloadable pdf, we chose a direction, but we were several throws down the hill before we realized we missed the angle by about 15 degrees and were about 200 feet east of the basket before we found it. I stressed how important it is to study the pictures beforehand, but on hole number 3 I don't think it'd even help you. So here's my advice on #3, don't think left since it's more to the right. Many, if not most, of the tee signs were on the ground since they are not mounted permanently.

Tee pads
I understand from another review that concrete tees are not an option on this mountain, but many tees are gone and others are breaking apart. The rubber tees are actually not bad at all, but to maintain them on this mountain would take time and effort, which hasn't happened.

Baskets
Some of the baskets are not permanent. They are temporary baskets and I suppose that's why the first basket ended up in a bush. They are Innova Discatchers, so no problem there. There is a number on most of the baskets, if not all, but the number is not usually facing the tee. There are some poles which mount on the top of the baskets so that they can be seen from a distance, which is great, but in a few cases the pole is sitting on the ground next to the basket or just gone. Most baskets need markers like this, but don't have a bright flag on top, which would be a big help to make it more visible.

Location
Because this is a ski resort course it is only open about half the year and is a very far drive for most people to get there. It was a six hour drive for me from Orange County.

Design stretch
Hole 6 is referred to by most previous reviewers as an epic hole or their favorite. I use it as an example of the over reaching stretch of the designers. It is 498' from an elevated tee to an elevated basket with a gulley of forest in between. There's a great picture of this posted here. Stop now and go look at this "epic" hole. Most of us can't throw 500' and will end up at the bottom of the gulley. This hole and #8 (also referred to as a favorite) made me realize that this course is stretched to the limits of disc golf capacity and designed for the upper strata skill level. These kind of holes are not fun for most of us. This was my 103rd course to play and I've been beat down many times, but it seems like there's an extra effort here to wear you out, beat you down, and impress you how much better this course is than you are. Par is 84, but dgcr's SSE is 93, which means it's really hard to get par. Usually SSE is lower than par.

Other Thoughts:

I'm glad I made it to China Peak. It's been on my wish list for awhile. Although I'm only giving it a 3.5, which is Very Good, I still recommend, as the designer did, that everyone gets there for a very memorable experience. I'm sorry I can't be kinder in my review, but I'm not at the higher skill level to appreciate the design and I'm afraid there are many out there like me. It's unique in all the courses I've played and reviewed, including Wagrain, a ski resort in the Austrian Alps. It's extremely majestic and full of natural beauty, but at the same time it needs some attention and love that a local club could give it yet it's so remote that there's no such local club to care for it. When you click on the course homepage here it is a dead link.
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12 0
ross
Experience: 78 played 1 reviews
4.50 star(s)

Once in a Lifetime Disc Golf Experience 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 16, 2015 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

Full disclosure -- I originally approached the China Peak ownership with this idea and was one of the designers. Having said that....

China Peak is a beautiful, scenic, challenging course. It is truly a disc golf destination which happens to be in a spectacular part of the Sierras (Huntington Lake is right there, Shaver Lake is nearby and Mono Hot springs is an hour away). There are tons of great camping and lodging options which make it a great weekend destination for the family.

China Peak, as a previous reviewer said, is not for the faint of heart. It will test your physical endurance, mental focus and ability to execute technical and long throws at altitude as well as require every shot in your bag (except rollers, mostly). This is not a course that you can play more than once in a day, and you best be prepared with some snacks (a 5-6+ hour round requires that) and water (though you can resupply on holes 12 & 19).

If you're used to playing at sea level this course (like all mountain courses) will require you to adjust what you throw and how you throw it. Add in the extreme elevation changes and you find a lot of first time players here scratching their heads. Although many of the holes could be birdied by a skilled player the very same player could take a 5 and up on those very same holes the next time around.

Outright epic holes: #2, 3, 6, 8, 11, 12, 15, 18, 19, 23, 26, 27.

Honorable Mention: #7, 12, 13, 22, 24

Great, friendly staff. Full bar at the end of your round. Awesome swimming nearby.

Cons:

-- Depending on where you live it can be a haul to get up here (4-5 hours from the Bay Area).
-- If you're not in decent physical shape this may not be that much fun for you.
-- The chair doesn't start until 9 so you have to get on the mountain pretty early (say by 11 or so) to be able to finish before they close the mountain.

Other Thoughts:

-- You'll want to throw multiple shots on almost every hole but resist the urge, otherwise your round will take even longer.

- Using a spotter saves an enormous amount of time. Although there is a surprising lack of underbrush which in theory should make finding discs easier the reality is that errant shots fly so far that it is sometimes difficult to spot exactly where they landed.

-- Some previous reviewers have mentioned garbage on the course. This is a concern but it is almost exclusively from skiers. But if every golfer can pick up a few things soon enough we'd have a much cleaner mountain.

-- The pro shop is good about calling people who lose discs so remember to mark all of your plastic.

-- Groceries are scarce and expensive up in the mountains so make sure to stock up (Prather is the closest proper supermarket).

-- I'm only giving this a 4.7 and not a 5 because there some dirt tee pads -- this is unavoidable because of Forest Service regulations but hampers some of your tee shots a bit.

In closing I think my fellow designer Leonard Muise said it best when he said:

"YOU GOTTA PLAY THIS COURSE. If you live within a day's drive of this course, you have no excuse not to play it every year. No matter where you live, you owe yourself a round here. No matter what courses you've played before, I'm certain that China Peak will be a unique and memorable experience."
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7 0
cdamon
Experience: 43.9 years 9 played 9 reviews
4.50 star(s)

Dream Course For Anyone Who Loves To Throw 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 9, 2015 Played the course:once

Pros:

This is a spectacular course designed with high-level players in mind. Not a single hole is easy or boring. After paying $15 to take a ski lift to the top, you play 27 holes down the mountain. Lots of downhill holes, obviously.

- Spectacular holes with lots of potential for spectacular throws. At least twenty of the holes would be the signature hole on any other course.
- Beautiful views, including Huntington Lake.
- Best mountain course I've played, easily.
- Uncrowded.
- Well-signed. Nice tee signs, and ribbons to guide you to the next tee. Baskets in good shape.
- Good, fair mix of righty/lefty holes.
- Wide range of scores possible on most of the holes; on many of them, anything from a 2 to a 7 is available
- With the elevation and so many downhill holes, there's not a huge premium on power past a certain point; if you can throw 350' at sea level, you are in great shape here.

Cons:

- A bit remote (fact of life for any mountain course)
- You can only get in one round a day
- Can't really go back and play holes you like, unless you like climbing
- Fair amount of trash lying around.
- Arduous, and a little bit treacherous. Be careful.
- Easy to lose discs.
- A few of the tees were challenging, either lumpy mats or soft sand

Other Thoughts:

Elevation makes discs more stable. Bring understable plastic. Stable stuff just does not stay in the air at all, and most holes are long enough that you'll need some glide.

Be patient. Don't worry about score. This course is really hard and really enjoyable. Focus on how much fun each throw is. As with any mountain course, you can get severely punished for being off by just a bit. That's the other side of the spectacle.

Since it's hard to get a disc to hold a turn, it really helps if you can throw both spins.

Use a spotter. It's easiest to have the first player throw a drive, then go down and spot for the others. That way no one has to climb back up to the tee.

Fantastic holes: 2, 6, 8, 11, 23 (my favorite)
Great holes: 3, 7, 15, 16, 19, 27
Very good: 1, 4, 5, 12, 13, 14, 24, 26
Good: the rest

Summary: If you love to play disc golf, this is an experiece you need to check out. Definitely worth the trip.
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19 0
Whirlwind Disc Golf
Experience: 42.9 years 102 played 1 reviews
4.50 star(s)

27 holes of wicked funchallenge 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Aug 3, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

-- beauty upon beauty: SO many majestic flights past huge trees within awesome mountain scenery!
-- open yet technical, often on the same throw: threading the needle on a 300-foot hole is one thing (it's got plenty of that), but holding your line for 10 or 15 or even 20 seconds on a relentlessly downhill hole -- quite another! (common refrain: "sure seemed like a wide fairway before I threw! do you have any idea where it landed?")
-- great balance of power<>control and risk<>reward: there is exactly one low-risk big-arm hole on the entire course (#17, 420 feet, slightly uphill.) on the other hand, there are 10 holes where a big arm (450+ level feet) would seem useful, except that the course keeps beating you upside the head with this lesson: "far ain't no good if it ain't in the fairway"
-- elevation and slope are complex variables: yes, the thin air at 8500 feet will stabilize your discs. on the other hand, properly nose-down drives on downhill holes tend to flip easily. (good luck with that!)
-- a multi-course feast: after you've played this monster, you'll feel like you just played two or even three 18-hole courses worth of energy, scenery, frustration, and thrill. (it appears to be the longest course west of the Rockies, measuring 2.44 miles tee-to-basket -- over 3 miles if you count the walk from the chair lift to #1 and the walk from #27 back to the lodge -- over 4 miles when you count basket-to-tee walks and looking looking looking for discs).
-- CRAZY NUMBER OF FLAT-OUT EPIC HOLES: these holes would be signature holes on most any other course, holes where you feel like you've committed a crime if you only throw one disc.
>> #2: straight ahead looks like the best route, but don't be suckered. it's really a gentle 552-foot finesse rhbh hyzer (drops 160 feet) around a stand of big trees in the middle of the ski run. [regular par 4, pro par 3]
>> #6: nice little slightly downhill 498-foot rip through a narrow gap of towering pines, from an elevated tee to an elevated basket. the monster hugemungous rhbh hyzer bomb is completely legit and completely insane. [regular par 4 / pro par 3]
>> #8: gorgeous exasperating 873-foot hole through a classic corridor of both mature and younger pines. a good rhbh drive can easily sail the first 600-700+ feet (drops 119 feet, mostly on the drive). but if it fades off the fairway into the mix of trees on the left -- like nearly every "perfect" drive ultimately seems to do -- then scoring a 3 will have to wait for another day. [regular par 5 / pro par 4]
>> #11: maybe one of every 10 drives lands in the 250-foot-wide fairway of this 1050-foot hole which drops 280 feet down the face of a ski run. If you can throw 325 feet on flats and hold your envisioned line for 20+ seconds, then it's an easy deuce. seriously. no joke. just try it. go ahead, you can totally do this... any discs left in the bag? hit the fairway yet? [regular par 4, pro par 3]
>>#18: run-of-the-mill double-dogleg (left-to-right drive followed by long right-to-left approach) from wide open space into a ski corridor with dense forest (read: jail) on both sides of the 75-foot wide, gently curving fairway. slight but persistent upslope makes it play much longer than 714 feet; requires two excellent shots for good players to reach the green in two. [regular par 5 / pro par 4] (note: may be extended seasonally to an equally ordinary triple-dogleg measuring over 900 feet - par 6 & 5 respectively)
>> #23: reachable left-to-right bomb (measures 784 feet, plays about 475) from an elevated tee 100+ feet down to a seemingly wide, relatively flat fairway, split by a single tall pine. if you find the fairway, you'll have a rare wide-open approach for your 3. [regular par 4 / pro par 3]
>> #26: no radical slope or 20-second flights here, just a gorgeous and scoreable 642-foot par 4 amongst wonderfully spaced trees. like several of the par 4s, the ideal drive is slightly left-to-right and the approach is right-to-left. [regular par 4 / pro par 4]
>> #27: one last sweet launch to close the round. 603 feet long, dropping 133 feet, reachable with a mid-range for many players. appears completely wide open, but beware the treacherous basket placement on a small steep sidehill and major lost disc potential if your rhbh drifts into the dense swampy brush to the left. [regular par 4 / pro par 3]
-- epicness honorable mentions:
>> #3: 636 feet, drops 140 feet, tight line over boulders and through mid-fairway goal posts, reachable on the drive but rarely 3'd [par 4/3]
>> #12: 312 feet, level, perfectly picturesque, framed by two huge boulders. great complement to the preceding 1050-foot mega-huck [par 3/3]
>> #15: 477 feet, moderately downhill, quintessential rhbh stable S-flight blasting through wooded gateway across open meadow. pure. [par 4/3]
>> #19: 405 feet, moderately downhill, wide open with a dramatic drop-off to the right. wind is more likely to be a major factor on this hole than any other; 5-10 mph coming from coming from 1:00-2:00 is tricky for rhbh throwers [par 3/3]
>> #21: 273 feet, steeply uphill, through 8-foot wide goalposts 45 feet in front of the tee -- the sphincter factor. [par 3/3]

-- the staff is friendly and helpful, especially in the shop. if lost discs are found with names but no phone numbers, they'll cross-reference their waiver forms -- yes, you need to sign a waiver, as there's a chair lift, it's Forest Service land, etc -- to find your phone number. lately, they've also left a large water cooler near the basket on #11 for players to replenish. that's service!

Cons:

maybe 4 or 5 holes out of 27 don't have anything uniquely interesting or appealing about them. for example, #17 is kinda boring. and also, uh, hmm... actually only #17.

overall, the course is well balanced in terms of flight paths and power. but there are a couple clusters of holes where a similar drive can be effective. the biggest cluster is holes 13, 14, and 16, then 20, 22, and 25 -- where a low, controlled, medium power, left-to-right drive can earn a *relatively* easy deuce (~275-325 effective feet). the course could use a couple more finesse rhbh hyzers to offset (or replace) these holes.

with such a huge landscape and fatiguing terrain -- not just steep slopes, but also loose, boot-filling sand and rocks -- it's a relief that the course flow is excellent. with only a few exceptions, the next tee is within 150 feet. in a few cases, however, the tees could/should actually be a little further out of range from nearby holes (#3, #4, #6, #7, #10, #12, #13, #21).

pace of play is slow, often taking 6+ hours on a player's first visit, even longer for unaware or masochistic beginners. as the course matures -- e.g., gaps open up, brush is trampled down, players get more familiar -- this should improve a bit.

course availability is limited. the chair lift starts at 9 am, and the mountain closes at 4:30 pm (which means you better get on the mountain by 11 if you want to complete 27 holes.) maybe if the course gets popular enough, China Peak will be able to run the chair longer, open on Fridays, and lengthen the summer season overall.

there's a lot more trash and beer cans littering the course than you'd expect for a new course with only ~200 players so far. it's just an attitude problem with a small number of players. China Peak could help out with a few more trash cans.

Other Thoughts:

[[full disclosure: i co-designed this course with Ross Hammond (my design partner for the Golden Gate Park course) and Craig Getty (designer of many Tahoe area courses, including Bijou, Squaw Valley, and Turtle Rock). i've also designed roughly 15 tournament courses and course extensions, way back in the 80s and 90s. i'm a frickin perfectionist, so my 4.5 rating here is only because so many individual holes are spectactular. otherwise, it would be a 4.0 or maybe even 3.5. (I've yet to see, play, or design a course that i'd give a 5.0)...]]

mountain courses take tremendous effort to install, and they take a while to get broken in. at this point in its first season, some tees are rubber, some are still dirt. most tees have good signs, some still just have paper tacked on a pole. a few baskets are currently blind from the tee, but will be visible in the future.

it's hard to overstate the mental challenge of this course. the first nine holes are the most brutal nine, both in terms of scoring and walking. if you can keep your head together and pace yourself until you get to #11 -- the reachable 1050-foot thriller -- you might be able to exploit the many reasonable birdie opportunities ahead (#12, #13, #14, #16, #19, #20, #21, #22, #23, #24, #25). yes, that's a lot of birdie holes! if you can avoid 5s and cash in a few birdies, it's actually possible to go low.

the course does not seem to get very windy, despite the terrain. when it does blow, however, it only seems to help make holes more interesting rather than making them too easy or too hard. (having said that, my wish is that everyone gets to play #11 on a calm day!)

after warming up in the large open area at the base of the chair, taking the slow ~10-minute lift is a great way to transition onto the course. you can take in the wonderful views, get focused on playing well, and deeply inhale all the awesome you're about to experience.

with the sport's growth, some courses struggle to keep up. some are overwhelmed, some get wrangled into submission by a rapidly increasing number of powerful and talented players throwing incredible plastic. well, i dare say, the sport is not going to outgrow China Peak. some super-elite players might score well on occasion -- somebody says they shot 80 last weekend! -- but there's no doubt that this will remain a unique and intense challenge for any player.

YOU GOTTA PLAY THIS COURSE. if you live within a day's drive of this course, you have no excuse not to play it every year. no matter where you live, you owe yourself a round here. no matter what courses you've played before, i'm certain that China Peak will be a unique and memorable experience.
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19 1
Peterb
Silver level trusted reviewer
Experience: 31 years 81 played 32 reviews
4.50 star(s)

Epic Mountain Golf Not For The Faint Of Heart 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Aug 3, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

- Some of the world's most epic shots. A 1050' par 3? Yep. Several top of the world shots 600'+ that pros can get with a midrange
- Technical, fair, and fun
- amazing alpine scenery: lake views galore, giant boulders used as hazards, awesome trees
- challenge for every shot needed except for extreme uphill (probably a pro at this elevation)
- Ski resort provides water at two locations
- nice rubber tees on most holes
- only a few blind holes: great to be able to see the basket from 1000' or 800' feet away.
- well marked for such a large and remote area

Cons:

- a very long round that is physically demanding. Plan on spending a lot of time looking for discs as the previous reviewers mentioned. This is largely due to so many downhill drives which increases the spray distance. Trees often makes things worse when you hit one and it kicks off into oblivion
- unfinished tees on the front (3-10) make it more difficult to get the pure line that's needed off the tee.
- a couple of pin placements that are blind which, if placed with a view from the tee would make the hole more fun for a destination course like this
- too many right doglegs. Felt a little repetitive despite this playing towards my game. If there were a forced left dogleg, it would have given the course better balance
- beer cans...what are you littering fools thinking??? Pack it in pack it out...ain't that hard idiots.

Other Thoughts:

WOW. My friend said after playing this course and getting the beatdown that you get what you want out of life. Well if you want incredible epic throws, a day you'll remember while you're staring at your computer screen at work, and are a little bit of a masochist and a mountain goat, then this course is for you. Flatlanders, chukkers, people who think that disc golf should only be played in a manicured park setting...STAY AT HOME. YOU WILL BE SERIOUSLY UNHAPPY.

For the rest, watching your disc fly 900 feet down the hill, weaving technical lines through massive trees and granite boulders, and the fun of playing all day in a physical and mental test...bring sunscreen, a wide rimmed hat, lots of food and water, gaiters, and at least ankle high hiking boots...and you'll be stoked.

Make sure you're on the hill early, since you'll need about 6+ hours to finish this epic monster.

My favorite holes:
2,6,8,9,11,12,18,19,23,26,27. All of these are world class epic holes that will challenge, inspire, perplex, and just have that wow factor.

Amazing place!
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11 7
ooochkchkooo
Experience: 17.3 years 3 played 3 reviews
5.00 star(s)

This course makes you work for it! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Played on:Jul 14, 2013 Played the course:once

Pros:

-27 Holes
-Brand new baskets
-Lots of up and down throws
-Several LONG top of the world shots
-Course was well marked with ribbon for direction
-Awesome bar at the bottom

Cons:

-Not all tee pads are complete (but still ok)
-A lot of loose debris will find its way into your shoes (crushed granite, bark, dirt)
-only one water station & restroom (19th tee pad)
-Need more trash bins, could already see bottles & cans accumulating in the woods (not cool)

Other Thoughts:

-Spotters are an excellent idea
-Wear hiking boots and bring a change of socks
-Bring a couple water bottles
-Bring sunscreen
-If you pack it in, pack it out.
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9 9
Outhousekilla
Experience: 20.3 years 41 played 2 reviews
5.00 star(s)

This aint no flatlander course! 2+ years drive by

Reviewed: Updated: Played on:Jul 7, 2013 Played the course:2-4 times

Pros:

Basket one is at 8600.elv. feet. Great views, hard course, fun terrain, Trees and rocks. The best course I have played. Fun fun fun!

Cons:

Wear lether boots, bring a spotter, water and long pants. This is a mountian course not a park. Its not free and there is a an issue with waiting to get no the first pad. Mainly due to finding disc.

Other Thoughts:

Give yourself about 4 to 6 hrs to play. if you are not on the lift by 2:00 they will not let you go up. This course will eat your disc and time looking for it, so plan an extra hour for looking for lost disc. Even though you play from the top to the base, there is good amount of up hill if you make a mistake or play short. They need more trash cans and water stops. You need to be in good physical shape or you will not have a good time.
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