[Prodigy] Prodigy M4 - the good /the bad

[Frolfington]

Can you guys post the color / weight of your M4 and the stability of it? Mine is yellow, 180g, and is more understable than a buzz SS. It will pop up and turn from a decent fan grip toss 250' out or so. :\

 

[DBarb]

I think it's because discs require more precision than most other plastic items. High RPM's = exponential effects of tiny variations.

If they can make AR receivers and handguns out of plastic (polymer) then they can sure as **** make a frisbee consistently. There's no excuse for the lack of quality and consistency, and the fact that consumers are having to pay so much money to find a disc that flies like the one they just lost is pretty pathetic.

 

[tbird888]

If they can make AR receivers and handguns out of plastic (polymer) then they can sure as **** make a frisbee consistently. There's no excuse for the lack of quality and consistency, and the fact that consumers are having to pay so much money to find a disc that flies like the one they just lost is pretty pathetic.

Are those same AR Receivers and handguns selling for under $20? Were they inconsistent for the past 30 years at the same price point?

 

[dehaas]

Are those same AR Receivers and handguns selling for under $20? Were they inconsistent for the past 30 years at the same price point?

spot on. until people are willing to pay a lot more for discs increasing quality control is going to be a tough argument.

 

[1978]

spot on. until people are willing to pay a lot more for discs increasing quality control is going to be a tough argument.

Sort of but also way off. We could pay more and expect better quality. We could also pay less and expect better quality.

A disc is not a complex piece of machinery. There are litterally billions of different parts, components, products, that have better quality control and almost exact construction from part to part. We pay $20 ONLY because we will pay $20. We could also pay $5 and <insert disc manufacturer>and the retailers would still make profit AND should be held accountable for quality. We are talking about injection molding a plastic (round) part, it using a few cents worth of plastic material, then stamping. Pretty basic manufacturing stuff.

It is an attitude not a matter of technology that gets us poor performing discs.

 

[The Hammer]

Sort of but also way off. We could pay more and expect better quality. We could also pay less and expect better quality.

A disc is not a complex piece of machinery. There are litterally billions of different parts, components, products, that have better quality control and almost exact construction from part to part. We pay $20 ONLY because we will pay $20. We could also pay $5 and <insert disc manufacturer>and the retailers would still make profit AND should be held accountable for quality. We are talking about injection molding a plastic (round) part, it using a few cents worth of plastic material, then stamping. Pretty basic manufacturing stuff.

It is an attitude not a matter of technology that gets us poor performing discs.

Maintaining tight tolerances and QC costs far more than you think. I work in the aerospace industry where we pay hundreds, even thousands of dollars for things like nuts and screws that are almost identical to those found at Home Depot for pennies. The difference is the tight tolerances they have to adhere to, inspections loops, and other QC measures. Quality costs buku bucks.

 

[dehaas]

Sort of but also way off. We could pay more and expect better quality. We could also pay less and expect better quality.

A disc is not a complex piece of machinery. There are litterally billions of different parts, components, products, that have better quality control and almost exact construction from part to part. We pay $20 ONLY because we will pay $20. We could also pay $5 and <insert disc manufacturer>and the retailers would still make profit AND should be held accountable for quality. We are talking about injection molding a plastic (round) part, it using a few cents worth of plastic material, then stamping. Pretty basic manufacturing stuff.

It is an attitude not a matter of technology that gets us poor performing discs.

If producing discs for $5 with a greater amount of quality control was possible somebody would be doing it and would have undercut the entire golf disc industry. Disc prices have stayed pretty much the same the entire time I've been playing and to instill better quality control you will either have to spend money on climate control, more manpower to physically inspect the discs, and productivity lost in the regrind process. All of that is going to cost money, and a for profit business isn't going to just eat the loss in profit, they'll pass it along as a cost increase to the consumer.

It's possible that a disc manufacturer could produce discs with a (small) profit at $5, but I'm not sure they could (or want to) do it with an increase in quality control.

 

[simplepmart]

Great comments about how much a quality consistent disc should or would cost. That has me wondering what my bottom line price would be to have a disc that was ALWAYS consistently made the same. IMHO there are no current discs that fit this description, so what would I pay (at the most)? I think $30 would be my max price per disc if it was guaranteed to be the same as my previous disc.

 

[AaronMonier18]

FWIW I've never seen X-Outs that are in such good shape. I looked at Marshall Street at the M4 X-outs and they were all mint. Save yourself some money.

 

[loki993]

If they can make AR receivers and handguns out of plastic (polymer) then they can sure as **** make a frisbee consistently. There's no excuse for the lack of quality and consistency, and the fact that consumers are having to pay so much money to find a disc that flies like the one they just lost is pretty pathetic.

I'm not sure thats totally the same the plastic parts of gun are not the stress points and don't have to be in the same relative tolerance of some of the other things that make it go boom. Which is why some guns have better fit and finish than others and also why there is a pretty large price difference out there from some guns to others.

Also they are not made to fly. Something made to fly through the air and do it the same way every time will be much more susceptible to minor differences then something that isn't.

 

[jimbosprint]

Can you guys post the color / weight of your M4 and the stability of it? Mine is yellow, 180g, and is more understable than a buzz SS. It will pop up and turn from a decent fan grip toss 250' out or so. :\

Proto, red, 182.2g - more stable than a BuzzzSS. Will not flip up from hyzer and pulls out of anhyzer.

 

[1978]

If producing discs for $5 with a greater amount of quality control was possible somebody would be doing it and would have undercut the entire golf disc industry. Disc prices have stayed pretty much the same the entire time I've been playing and to instill better quality control you will either have to spend money on climate control, more manpower to physically inspect the discs, and productivity lost in the regrind process. All of that is going to cost money, and a for profit business isn't going to just eat the loss in profit, they'll pass it along as a cost increase to the consumer.

It's possible that a disc manufacturer could produce discs with a (small) profit at $5, but I'm not sure they could (or want to) do it with an increase in quality control.

No, why do that and make less per disc when you can release what ever you want at 12.99, 15.99, 16.99, and 18.99. These are set prices and regardless of how much it costs to make a disc we are accustomed to paying that for them. It works in their favor to follow the pricing strategy. It is a calculation of penny profit. It might make more sense to distribute and produce less discs for more, than flood the market with $5 discs. You would have to sell 4-5 discs to make the same profit.

 

[ern19]

Threw mine for the first time side-by-side with my Comets (168 Z and 178 ESP). Had some trouble dialing in my lines with it, which might just be from unfamiliarity. It seems to have a little less glide, with a more exagerrated fade. I'll keep chucking it for a little while, but it certainly won't chase my Comets out of my bag.

 

[1978]

Maintaining tight tolerances and QC costs far more than you think. I work in the aerospace industry where we pay hundreds, even thousands of dollars for things like nuts and screws that are almost identical to those found at Home Depot for pennies. The difference is the tight tolerances they have to adhere to, inspections loops, and other QC measures. Quality costs buku bucks.

Maybe, but you pay hundreds and thousands of dollars, sometimes just because you will. Just because you are part of an industry and pay more, doesnt mean it costs any more to manufacture.

Sort of like how the military pays 10's of thousands of dollars for office furniture that we would buy for hundreds. I work for Family Dollar and many of our products cost penny's and we set a quality expectation and test for it. We fight the perception that Dollar channel stores sell old, inferior, or late model goods. We are very sensitive to goods matching the quality that we set.

I worked for a tool company, we had extreme tolerances on tap's and dies. Each one was almost exactly alike. They all sat in a bin. We would lazer etch Matco, Mac, Snap-on (sub-brands) -> blue point, cornwell, Irwin, Greenlee.
A set of Irwin might sell for $250, Snap-on $475 and the parts came off the same machine from the same run, from the same stock steel rods (sourced from China) Even with the same lifetime guarantee, people were willing to pay 2x for Snap-on.

In industries like aerospace and pharmeceutical, people pay more because the consumers pay more. Penny pinching "can lead" to inferior parts and performance. It isn't worth investigating in many cases. Just because something is "quality." doesnt mean it was produced more expensively.

Another example would be hand written weights on discs. A simple inline scale with a printed wt gives better accuracy and quality look AND reduces the labor to hand weigh and write the weight. In that case better quality would be cheaper. Selection of appropriate machinery and processes should reduce costs as it reduces scrap, increases production efficiencies and reduces labor.

 

[wake911]

2 x 180 yellow. both fly the same.

Dead straight whatever flight path i put it on up to 330' (anny continues, hyzer continues(no flip up).) over 330' power floats off to the right some (rhbh) and barely comes back, so finishes a little to the right of starting line.

Just used to park a 350' big anny, such great glide, and smooth controlled turnover. Just a smidge of anny needed and it just holds it all the way around for a smooth landing.

The only problem is, too much anny and it stays on that line too and could get a roll at the end.

 

[Mike C]

More M3 than M4 shots here but still a few throws with the 4.

 

[zj1002]

M4 reminds me of something between a Buzzz SS and a stable QMS. Almost like a stable Meteor. Capable of turning, but not really excelling at it. Great for long flip straight shots. If I didn't have old tastey CE QMS, this would probably be the closest midrange.

And if you haven't gotten to try one yet

The M4 400S Prototype is the Prime discs One Day Wonder @ $12.69 http://www.primediscs.com/

Proto Prodigy Mmmm...

 

[onemilemore]

Just picked up a 400G M4, and I my first impression is a good one. Thrown with some hyzer it flips up and cruises. Holds an anny real well without burning out, but can also hold the hyzer if needed. Versatile and glidey.

The thing I like about it best, though, is that it is forgiving to the OAT monster. I intentionally cranked on this thing and it turned, but didn't burn. That's something that, since I don't have great form, really appeals to me.

And it's long. Damn long. Really excited to get it on the course and see what it can do in a one disc round.

 

[thePiRaTE]

Just picked up a 400G M4, and I my first impression is a good one. Thrown with some hyzer it flips up and cruises. Holds an anny real well without burning out, but can also hold the hyzer if needed. Versatile and glidey.

The thing I like about it best, though, is that it is forgiving to the OAT monster. I intentionally cranked on this thing and it turned, but didn't burn. That's something that, since I don't have great form, really appeals to me.

And it's long. Damn long. Really excited to get it on the course and see what it can do in a one disc round.

How did you find it next to the Tursas? I like a VIP Tursas for about the same thing you describe there, albeit, I can burn it if I overpower my annys (my fault).

 

[onemilemore]

How did you find it next to the Tursas? I like a VIP Tursas for about the same thing you describe there, albeit, I can burn it if I overpower my annys (my fault).

Same here. I found the M4 much more forgiving to form flaws. It could be the weight, though. My Tursas was 171 and the M4 is 177. But it is nice to be able to rip into it a little more.