[Innova] Wiggins Tour Series Destroyer in ProShop

[Romans 5-8]

We buy them blindly because we will never lose a dollar on any of them.

True dat!

 

[:::LSWT:::]

more showing up:

 

[Romans 5-8]

Those are purty.....real purty.

 

[BirdieMachine]

It's all about the way it cools, more dome will pull the wing up and round it off.

 

[natedg1976]

It's all about the way it cools, more dome will pull the wing up and round it off.

Birdie do not try and talk logic. Come on man this is DGCR. These guys that have no clue about anything in injection molding know everything about molding discs.

Seriously though, Birdie is on track. If a hot disc goes through a quick cooling process, it wil contract more causing more dome and the wing to be higher. If the same disc goes through a slower cooling process the opposite is true. Yes some of it has to do with mold design. But, except for the first vulcan topped destroyers, I have not seen a new true vulcan topped destroyer in a while. Maybe some older stock coming out with new stuff, maybe these wiggins ones are older stock they want to get rid of.

 

[BirdieMachine]

I just know from experience, I had a flat topped *DS that was ordered online that looked Vulcanish, Used some hot water treatment and domed it back up and the wing itself rounded off. So I have to say it all comes down to cooling. Maybe plastic blend has some effect too, IDK. But I do discount that they are just changing the top wildly. Should they be more consistent? Sure.

 

[natedg1976]

I just know from experience, I had a flat topped *DS that was ordered online that looked Vulcanish, Used some hot water treatment and domed it back up and the wing itself rounded off. So I have to say it all comes down to cooling. Maybe plastic blend has some effect too, IDK. But I do discount that they are just changing the top wildly. Should they be more consistent? Sure.

I totally agree they need to be more consistent by far. But these people that think they are just making new top half after new top half of the mold are a bit clueless if you ask me. They have no freaking idea how much the cost of making an injection mold is. On something as big as a disc, depending on the amount of moving parts, 50-100,000 dollars.

I totally believe that Teedevils are what the first Vulcan top Destroyers were. I am pretty sure now that they are selling them as Teedevils that they probably are not marking, stamping, and selling them as destroyers as well. The pics of the so called Vulcan top in this thread is nowhere near a Vulcan top of old, looks more like the Destroyer tops that I personally like to throw. Not to flat, not to domey, just right.

 

[disc cogg]

Anyone throw them yet? or is everyone saving/re-selling them

 

[natedg1976]

saving/re-selling them

Most likely this.^

 

[cjman]

Nate, you're being naive. If it were cooling, you would see variety between discs in the same run. There is some variety in dome, which I will agree is due to cooling. Different shapes in the rim can not be explained by cooling. All summer of 2013 there was not a shoulder on the "pd2" topped destroyers. People like Avery Jenkins have posted that a different top was used.

I have an extensive collection of destroyers. If you look where the patent numbers used to be, you can see different etch patterns from where they were removed. I have 4 distinct different patterns from the past 2 years. When I look at my Teebirds, they are ALL the same. Please explain how cooling changed the etch marks.

 

[BirdieMachine]

I agree that there are Vulcan and PD2 Destroyers. I disagree that these DW's are or most are and the differences seen are cooling. Just from the ones I've owned and bought.

Do they also mold discs at Innova East? That could explain a difference too.

 

[Ted Bratton]

Lol those are regular destroyers. I have definitely seen many a "vulcan top" destroyer which I'm not quite sure has the same top. Like most of you I have also seen hundreds of destroyers from different times in destroyer history. Some have a little more or less dome, are more or less blunt, are a little more or less rounded or flat at various spots, lower or higher wing, more or less plus mold, etc, etc, etc. All molds of drivers have these same inconsistencies, just look at teebirds...or any other driver! They're still just regular destroyers which ended up a little different than your other ones because of a large number of variables in the manufacturing process....but most likely the plastic that was used. What is important is how they feel and fly for you! That's it!

 

[notroman]

I agree that there are Vulcan and PD2 Destroyers. I disagree that these DW's are or most are and the differences seen are cooling. Just from the ones I've owned and bought.

Do they also mold discs at Innova East? That could explain a difference too.

I have Destroyers from 2010 with patent numbers that have the same straight/angled wing so I do buy the whole cooling thing. I'm just not happy about it And I call them Vulcan top to differentiate them from the others since they look a lot like a Vulcan top.

They're all molded at Innova West. I buy from Innova East a lot and they always have to wait on shipments from Innova West for new stuff, therefore end up getting new releases a few days late.

 

[DannyThunders]

Regardless of whether it's cooling or an entirely different mold piece, i wish it would stop. The Destroyer is the hardest disc to go out and buy replacements for because the tops on them are so wildly different over the years, moreso than any other distance driver i've noticed. Thankfully these new vulcan shaped Destroyers have a bit more glide due to the increased dome over the old ones.

 

[natedg1976]

To all of you that do not work in the industry, plain an simple you have zero clue what it takes to consistently produce injected molded plastic parts. It is a multi-billion dollar industry for a reason. It is not easy. I personally work in quality assurance for a medical device molding company and can assure you no two parts EVER measure the exact same. These parts are much smaller than discs and the variance is in the hundredth of a thousandth of an inch. Discs being bigger and not being manufactured under scientific molding practices will I guarantee have even bigger variances. Unless you are ready to pay 30-60 dollars per disc be happy with what you get. The plastics used are extremely pliable per industry standards. The more pliable the plastic, the more it shrinks and expands during the process. That is just facts. Innova would have to totally retool all of their molds, rewrite all of their standards and rebuild their factory to be climate controlled to the tenth of a degree to get the results most of you want.

Most of the products the facility I work for sell for over 300 dollars. If you all think you can supply a better product at the same price, build your own damn factory or shut the hell up. Otherwise get a brain and realize the product we use is actually pretty damn good for what it is, a recreational device used to play a game. What I make saves flipping lives so it has to be right, what in nova makes needs to fly to a damn basket in the least amount of throws.

 

[natedg1976]

I have Destroyers from 2010 with patent numbers that have the same straight/angled wing so I do buy the whole cooling thing. I'm just not happy about it And I call them Vulcan top to differentiate them from the others since they look a lot like a Vulcan top.

They're all molded at Innova West. I buy from Innova East a lot and they always have to wait on shipments from Innova West for new stuff, therefore end up getting new releases a few days late.

You get it. The rest of them, not so much.

 

[BirdieMachine]

You get it. The rest of them, not so much.

Nate- Do you know if molds wear out over time? Can they use the same mold over 10 years or longer?

I don't discount that other tops may have been used but a majority of the time what you see is just like you stated. It all comes down to plastic blend and cooling. This is why every run has variations. Once you find one you like you better stock up.

 

[dekdo]

more showing up:

niceeeeeeee :thmbup:

 

[Apoth]

Nate- Do you know if molds wear out over time? Can they use the same mold over 10 years or longer?

I don't discount that other tops may have been used but a majority of the time what you see is just like you stated. It all comes down to plastic blend and cooling. This is why every run has variations. Once you find one you like you better stock up.

Without a doubt, molds wear out and have to be replaced. That's why you have wasp and buzzz tooled buzzzes and why (I believe) there are no more ontario rocs being produced.

 

[cjman]

Nate please explain the different scrape marks from removing the patent marks. Different tops have been used in the past couple years.