2015 Pro Worlds full- Another registration fiasco?

[The Happy Gilmore]

This needs to be said...again...AMATEURS CAN'T AND DIDN'T GET INTO WORLDS AHEAD OF PROS. Amateurs aren't invited to Pro Worlds. Pros are invited to Pro Worlds. Every single player registered for Worlds is...a...pro. Those that got in met the same invitation and registration criteria as those on the waitlist. There is nothing inherently unfair or untoward going on here.

And considering it took 10 hours to fill, the arguments about it opening in the middle of the night while people were asleep or working fall short too. There was a more than reasonable window for someone to take five minutes to get in if they really wanted to. They announced the date and time of registration in December. After last year, there should be no expectation that it wouldn't fill quickly. There is no "woe is me, it caught me off guard" excuse that holds water.

Only way this changes is petitioning to have Worlds changed entirely...new qualifying, new registration, new event structure. Considering 2016 is booked and rumors are 2017 is as well, the change might be a ways off if it happens at all.

Just because there registration says pros does not mean they are pro. All those 930 and 940 (and even higher) players are NOT pros. It is absolutely ridiculous if you think that because they are able to register as pros they are actual pros. They may be classified as pros but they are not "real" pros. You can call me an elitist or whatever but I'm not going to go to a "world championship" without expecting to see the best compete.

 

[hook_nuts]

They need to expand spots to accommodate all the baddies and then make a cut line like in ball golf. Let everyone play, get all their moneys, the baddies that get cut will stick around to be in the gallery most likely.

 

[DavidSauls]

They need to expand spots to accommodate all the baddies and then make a cut line like in ball golf. Let everyone play, get all their moneys, the baddies that get cut will stick around to be in the gallery most likely.

This is how it's done now.

 

[hook_nuts]

This is how it's done now.

They let everyone in and cut it after round two? Or just have a final 9 for the top card?

 

[DavidSauls]

They cut after 4 days, which is usually rounds 5 or 6. I believe they have a full-round semi-final, cut again, and a 9-hole final (not sure about that).

Far fewer would come if the cut were after round 2, and few of them would stay another 3 days to make up the gallery in the finals.

 

[tom12003]

Two (or 3) possible ways of alleviating this log jam.

1. Make the MPO initial field of 226 (72 x 3) playing the same 3 courses the first 2 days; then based on scores ELIMINATE the last 72 from further play, resulting in the more manageable field of 144 for the remainder of the event.

2. Set the MPO field to whatever can fit the designed courses, but RESERVE 10-20 slots for a "play-in" qualifier on Sunday or Monday (just as they do for the USDGC). This would raise a significant amount of $$ that could be added to the overall payout (generates almost $5,000 extra at the USDGC).

or

3. a combination of #1 and #2 above.

 

[DavidSauls]

Or just changes the standards for invites to only invite as many people as there are spaces to fill.

After an adequate time, open any remaining, unclaimed spots to others.

 

[thatdirtykid]

Or just changes the standards for invites to only invite as many people as there are spaces to fill.

After an adequate time, open any remaining, unclaimed spots to others.

I think for Open especially the invites should go out ratings based instead of points alone. I know plenty of 950 rated Open players who get more than enough points finishing top of the bottom third in a dozen events, while there are a couple guys who when they show up finish top 5 who may not accumulate enough points for worlds despite a 990 rating.

 

[teemkey]

Most, if not all, of the top pros are sponsored. There are a couple of ways that sponsorship could assure that the best players are in a major/NT event.

The PGA (for example) has sponsor exemptions to enable companies that pony up the bucks to get their players into a tournament that the player did not get into via the usual way (qualifying events, etc). I assume there's some base amount of money input to become a sponsor, so it's a good way to raise funds and get the unregistered top pros in.

Frankly, I don't know if sponsors are currently permitted to register their pros, but having an intern sitting on the registration site makes sense to me.

 

[scarpfish]

Just because there registration says pros does not mean they are pro. All those 930 and 940 (and even higher) players are NOT pros. It is absolutely ridiculous if you think that because they are able to register as pros they are actual pros. They may be classified as pros but they are not "real" pros.

Considering what our top players make, and that all but a handful or two of them likely have a day job, neither are the 1000+ rated ones.

 

[scarpfish]

I think for Open especially the invites should go out ratings based instead of points alone. I know plenty of 950 rated Open players who get more than enough points finishing top of the bottom third in a dozen events, while there are a couple guys who when they show up finish top 5 who may not accumulate enough points for worlds despite a 990 rating.

Points are earned and stay on the board. Ratings can fluctuate. Someone with a lower rating who played a lot of events deserves to go to Worlds more than someone with a higher rating who did the bare minimum.

If the PDGA adopted my deposit system, someone getting enough points just to get an invite wouldn't mean squat, as they'd probably be bumped by someone with a lot more points.

 

[DavidSauls]

I think for Open especially the invites should go out ratings based instead of points alone. I know plenty of 950 rated Open players who get more than enough points finishing top of the bottom third in a dozen events, while there are a couple guys who when they show up finish top 5 who may not accumulate enough points for worlds despite a 990 rating.

If the first 144 invites went to the top points winners, or better yet, a formula that includes points and other factors, I suspect all of the dozen or two legitimate contenders would be included.

Beyond making sure legitimate contenders have a chance to play in World Championships, it's subjective as to how the other "participation" spots should be rationed. I'm not sure a good player playing a lot of events isn't more deserving than a very good player who rarely plays. I'm pretty sure that either standard is better than being the quickest to register, though.

 

[AndyJB]

Everywhere is having registration issues. Disc Golf is very popular. Nick Usher posted earlier about our problems here in Colorado. For God's sake, my Birdie Bash sold out in five days on one of the most basic, short courses you'll ever see.

So then, the real question here isn't "how can we fix it" it's "why isn't the PDGA taking this event (Pro Worlds) more seriously?"

Both of those queries have plenty of answers throughout this thread, almost all of them both good and feasible. if Worlds is to be the premiere showcase of disc golf, it needs to be treated as such. Touring Pros (those who are actually qualified as such) HAVE to get in. Former World Champions, regardless of age, HAVE to get in. Qualifiers need to be held, with top three getting slots. These qualifiers could be done by PDGA Pro player density...i.e. East Coast States, California, Colorado, etc. would have more qualifiers than my home state of Montana, who might only have one per year.

However, if PDGA wants to continue with USDGC being the showcase, then players will have to petition pretty hard for changes to World's. That means an actual player's petition. And it needs to get Am players on board, which wouldn't be too hard, for the PDGA to actually listen.

 

[DavidSauls]

I doubt the PDGA isn't taking the Worlds seriously.

When was the last time the top pros couldn't get into Worlds? Even this year, which started this whole thread, players on the east coast could have stayed up to midnight, or not slept past 9:30 a.m., and been fine. At least as reported here. There have been a few issues with NTs, but not really with Worlds. At least, as far as I recall. So it's a relatively new issue, and mostly a future concern.

I would think there is also a lead time to deal with. If they change guidelines for 2016 Worlds, it will be unfair for people now accumulating points. If the change involves the total number of players, it may affect the localities who have bid on future Worlds.

 

[AndyJB]

Fair points, David, but so was the point (posted earlier) that Pro World's filled this year in ten hours. That's not a set time limit, just the way it worked out. How will opinions change if next year everyone does stay up until it opens and it fills in an hour or less?

 

[DavidSauls]

Agree 100%. This year, particularly with The Memorial and Worlds, hints that business-as-usual may no longer work. And that it's probably time to address the issue, before it gets worse.

 

[brutalbrutus]

I wonder if there is a way they could use the world or continental rankings to pick the top50(or whatever) players, then they could let the rest of the field fill in as it is now.

 

[beereakfast]

I would like to disagree with the statement in bold. The speed of someone's internet connection is not what prevented any players from getting registered for Pro or Am Worlds.

For Pro Worlds the Open division registration didn't sell out for over 10 hours. Registration was still open this morning at 7:00 Pacific time for ALL Pro divisions. Players that couldn't be up late could have gotten up a little early (Although 10:00 am East Coast is not terribly early)

It wasn't a frenzy and no one got shut out because of slow internet speed. Players were shut out because of their slow speed in deciding to register.

This seems to me to be the key. The registration period was not that short. Try getting tickets to a big concert.

The real issue seems to be folks complaining that the top of the top aren't guaranteed a spot simply for being a top player, over all the others that also qualified for the event.

Seems like there should be another, higher championship based simply off of ratings with the rest of the field filled with the top of the regular championship.
That would satisfy both camps and still let all the other the top folks who still qualified play.

Seems like an equitable compromise.
Ducking the flames!

 

[sjberry2017]

This seems to me to be the key. The registration period was not that short. Try getting tickets to a big concert.

The real issue seems to be folks complaining that the top of the top aren't guaranteed a spot simply for being a top player, over all the others that also qualified for the event.

Seems like there should be another, higher championship based simply off of ratings with the rest of the field filled with the top of the regular championship.
That would satisfy both camps and still let all the other the top folks who still qualified play.

Seems like an equitable compromise.
Ducking the flames!

So almost like the new performance flight USDGC, like a first flight worlds and second flight worlds? I could see doing that; first flight is 1000+, and then the top x % of second flight gets bumped into first flight after three rounds maybe? There'd be a lot of sandbagging going on if that were implemented though, but it is a thought.

 

[Star Shark]

It's not the first time it's happened. I recall Josh Anthon not getting into Charlotte Worlds and it wasn't worth the risk to fly 3000 miles on the hopes that he'd get in off the wait list.