ratings question

[LukeButch]

I'm hoping to do a tournament on a 13 hole course, which is the minimum for the round to be rated. Are the ratings ok for so few holes or are the point gaps too big?

 

[bwgort]

I'm hoping to do a tournament on a 13 hole course, which is the minimum for the round to be rated. Are the ratings ok for so few holes or are the point gaps too big?

Typically depends on how short the course is. If the holes are really short, the strokes will be close to 20 pts each on the ratings scale.

Last weekend in the Canadian Championships, they had a 13 hole round on a longer course and the ratings were about 10 pts per stroke (which is close enough to normal).

 

[biscoe]

Chuck will correct me if wrong but I am pretty sure that number of holes doesn't dictate the points per stroke as long as you have the number of holes entered correctly in Tournament Manager. They will normalize points per stroke to be same as an 18 hole course of similar difficulty.

 

[ToddL]

Chuck will correct me if wrong but I am pretty sure that number of holes doesn't dictate the points per stroke as long as you have the number of holes entered correctly in Tournament Manager. They will normalize points per stroke to be same as an 18 hole course of similar difficulty.

Again, Chuck knows it more, but I don't think you are necessarily correct here. A 13 hole layout will have an extremely low SSA, and the SSA is the prime component of points-per-stroke.
https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/39082
Minnesota Majestic's 27 hole layout produces 6 points per stroke, despite not being as difficult as longer wooded 18 hole courses.

 

[bwgort]

Typically depends on how short the course is. If the holes are really short, the strokes will be close to 20 pts each on the ratings scale.

Last weekend in the Canadian Championships, they had a 13 hole round on a longer course and the ratings were about 10 pts per stroke (which is close enough to normal).

Here's an tournament that I played in that is an example of my first claim:

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/14506#MPO

Funny story, Tim Keith had a spit out on a single chain basket that went OB. The spit cost him about 40 ratings points for the round.

 

[Steve West]

Here's an tournament that I played in that is an example of my first claim:

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/14506#MPO

Funny story, Tim Keith had a spit out on a single chain basket that went OB. The spit cost him about 40 ratings points for the round.

...and the win, right? I'll bet people around Tim Keith are always asking him why he is breaking out into laughter all the time.

While it doesn't affect ratings at all, it looks like there were about five par 2s on that thirteen hole course.

 

[bwgort]

...and the win, right? I'll bet people around Tim Keith are always asking him why he is breaking out into laughter all the time.

While it doesn't affect ratings at all, it looks like there were about five par 2s on that thirteen hole course.

Every few years we get together and reminisce about the spitout that allowed me to tie him. Maybe I'm the only one laughing :\

As I said, the course was very short which is why you see the points at almost 20 per stroke.

 

[biscoe]

Again, Chuck knows it more, but I don't think you are necessarily correct here. A 13 hole layout will have an extremely low SSA, and the SSA is the prime component of points-per-stroke.
https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/39082
Minnesota Majestic's 27 hole layout produces 6 points per stroke, despite not being as difficult as longer wooded 18 hole courses.

Now that I actually look at it you are correct.

 

[teemkey]

The number of throws to complete a round is negatively correlated with rating points per throw (RPPT). For example, a 13 hole course of (true) par 5s will have a lower RPPT than an 18 hole course of (true) par 3s, given the same propagators.

 

[LukeButch]

Here's an tournament that I played in that is an example of my first claim:

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/14506#MPO

.

thanks for this, no way I wouldve found a 13 hole course tournament on my own lol. I'm ok with a big point difference as long as high rated rounds are possible and are resonably accurate. . The course I plan on using has 2 "par 2s" but 2 legit par 4s as well.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Fewer holes played provides less data/strokes to determine a rating so it has higher points per throw than 18. Some TDs will report scores on 13 hole layouts for 2 rounds combined so players get a 26-hole rating instead of the more volatile 13-hole ratings.

 

[Jouni]

Chuck, any insights on the new Double Disc format where each player plays each hole twice simultaneously? I would think that people ahoot better and pergapa with smaller variance that way, but have you checked are the ratings significantly different than feom normal two rounds format?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I haven't looked into it but it shouldn't make much difference. If everyone shoots just a bit better with their second disc, it will simply lower the SSA for that round and keep everyone's round rating the same.

 

[tbonesocrul]

Is the points per stroke only a function of what the SSA is, or do other factors influence the points per stroke?

 

[LukeButch]

Fewer holes played provides less data/strokes to determine a rating so it has higher points per throw than 18. Some TDs will report scores on 13 hole layouts for 2 rounds combined so players get a 26-hole rating instead of the more volatile 13-hole ratings.

would you recommend this for a 13 hole course with a projected SSA around 29 ?

 

[Cgkdisc]

would you recommend this for a 13 hole course with a projected SSA around 29 ?

That's probably too low for MPO to play it. If you said 39 or 36, not 29, then should be okay.

 

[LukeButch]

That's probably too low for MPO to play it. If you said 39 or 36, not 29, then should be okay.

what if there were no pros. I'm in malaysia and we won't have any regular pros, and only a couple real MA1 level players. i did my guesswork wrong, SSA will probably be close to 32-33

 

[Cgkdisc]

what if there were no pros. I'm in malaysia and we won't have any regular pros, and only a couple real MA1 level players. i did my guesswork wrong, SSA will probably be close to 32-33

The main idea is to give your highest rated player "ratings breathing room" so they can shoot 4-5 throws better than their rating without having to shoot a round lower than say 45 for 18 holes. For players around 900, they might shoot a 980 round tops on a great day on 18 holes. If that's a 48, then the SSA for 18 holes is in the 46 neighborhood. If a player is at 980, they might shoot a 1050. If the SSA is 46, they have to shoot a really low score like 40 or 41 to get that 1050. I would still recommend playing two rounds of 13 and submitting the total as one round of 26. Remember that each round is weighted based on the number of holes. So your players will get full credit for 26 holes without the volatility inherent in calculating ratings for just 13.

 

[LukeButch]

I never knew ratings were weighted based on number of holes. that makes it an easier decision