Mental State: Ratings vs Win?

[DiscFifty]

What makes you a better player, playing to improve your ratings or playing to win? And as a follow up, how does this decision affect your mental state while playing? opcorn:

 

[NoseDownKing]

What makes you a better player, playing to improve your ratings or playing to win? And as a follow up, how does this decision affect your mental state while playing? opcorn:

I do neither. I just try to birdie or par every hole. To be honest my goal is to win, but I'm usually not thinking about it when I play.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[NoseDownKing]

I do neither. I just try to birdie or par every hole. To be honest my goal is to win, but I'm usually not thinking about it when I play.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

The reason why I choose to do this, is because focusing on an end result is useless. You have to make the birdies before winning. Focusing on winning or ratings during a round will often lead to really poor scores. Not always but often.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[biscoe]

If you are thinking about anything other than one shot at a time you are screwing yourself. Do your focused best on each shot and wins and ratings are simply by products. That being said, now that we do everything on Live Scoring there are times when thinking about the win can come into play- generally only very late in a round though. I have both benefited and suffered from knowing exactly what I needed to do in an event to win (or cash).

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't see the distinction, other than the last few holes of a tournament that you're in contention. Other than that, playing for a lower score improves both your rating, and your winning.

Edit: Biscoe beat me to it, in time and better wording.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I don't have disc golf competition under my belt, but I've been in a lot of competitions.

I think your game plan should include whether or not you will be checking scores. And if/when you start checking them at the end. Obviously, if you are on the last hole and looking at a 35 footer, knowing whether you are up 1 or down 1 would be helpful in decision making.

 

[scooby snack]

Good question. I enjoy the competition so I play to win. Rating will take care of itself.

 

[coupe]

My goal is to bag a 1200 rating every round, knowing that if I achieve that, I'll win 999999999 times out of 1000000000. :thmbup:

By the end of hole 1, I'm so pissed it ain't happening my game goes in the crapper and end up finishing DFL. :doh::doh::doh:



Seriously, focus on executing every shot and wins and ratings will take care of themselves.

 

[Meillo]

I think that winning takes an additional mind state than playing good. Winning seldom just rolls along, in a relaxed state ... at least not if you play on the same level with the others. Winning means dealing with pressure. In the case of playing well, it might be more of being in the flow. But of course, if you play well, you're likely to win every once in a while.


It would be interesting to see rating vs. win percentage stats of the top pros and if this tells something about their mental condition.

 

[zontar]

what's winning?

 

[etdefender19]

Second place is the first loser

 

[DiscFifty]

Thx for the replies. My op is the extension of a discussion I'm having with a few buds. We all want to improve our tournament game and be better players, but have different mental tactics to get us there.

Ratings Dude: Very concerned about his player rating as he feels it's an exact barometer to his skill level. He likes to research previous tournaments scores & ratings, maps out a plan to shoot over his rating, etc, etc. Checking other ratings, scores, a few times during the round.

Relaxed Dude: Ratings matter but doesn't mind winning, mainly just wants to play a solid round. Never really plays aggressive off the tee unless confidence is extremely high.

Winner Dude: Not concerned with ratings at all. Plays very aggressive. Checks the score only on the last few holes to see where he's at. Then adjusts play if needed in order to give him the best chance at winning.

I've been the pure ratings dude and it's a mind fk for sure. Now I'm in the middle of the ratings/relaxed dude but I think this has caused me to stagnate due to limiting my shot selection resulting in less risk/reward, lost scoring opportunities. Obviously at any time you want to shoot the best shot you can execute, but I've been mainly sticking with shots in my comfort zone.

Example: 350 to the basket, basket has a few guardian trees, ob left and right, but the fairway is wide enough to go for it. I'm 100% laying up for an easy 3 due to the fear of bouncing off a tree and going ob. This line of thinking might make me a "smart" player but I doubt it's making me a better player.

I've never just wanted to win all the time playing disc golf. But regardless of skill level, perhaps the long term side affect of wanting to win all the time will ultimately result in being a better player. ?

I think that winning takes an additional mind state than playing good. Winning seldom just rolls along, in a relaxed state ...

I totally agree with this and is one our main discussion points.

 

[autocrosscrx]

I'm inherently winner dude. In other competitions, my transition from the equivalent of winner dude to ratings dude translated into levels of success much closer to what I expected. And occasional winning.

 

[Smigles]

Well if you look at the best players in the game, they have been observed to tone down the aggression towards the end of the final round of a tournament if they are leading. And the contrary, they have been observed to play ultra aggressive if they have to make up a few throws.

So i guess they ( and i mean Paul and Ricky who really have not much else to do in this sport any more other than win more titles) go for wins more.

 

[biscoe]

Winning on the pro tour is not like winning non-MPO divisions at lesser events. In most amateur divisions at most events the player making the fewest mistakes will have a very good shot at victory. For these players I would compare the trip through a round to driving a car- there are times when pressing the gas is appropriate as well as times when pressing the brake is. YMMV.

 

[BillFleming]

Play to do your best on each shot.

If you succeed on doing your best on each shot, it will get you closer to winning and aid in improving your rating. Focus on one thing at a time and that should be the shot you are making.

 

[klodkrawler05]

Regarding tournaments specifically, ahead of time I'm totally rating's guy. I like to check out a few previous tournaments at that course to get an idea of what I should be shooting to be in the hunt for a win or cashing. Mostly that just serves to remind me that in MA3 the competitor who collects the least amount of bogeys generally has the best shot at winning.

Once the tournament arrives I'll try to play like relaxed dude, but that's only because I want to be winner dude and ratings dude has already done his research and assured me that 15 boring pars plus 2-3 birdies on the easiest holes should be enough to get there.

In casual/practice/league rounds I generally go for the lower percentage shots almost every time. I feel like that helps me raise the ceiling of what a safe shot is for when tournament rounds arrive. I played a tournament this spring and there were only 2 holes I felt were true birdie looks every time I stepped to the tee. I just played that same course for another tournament this past weekend and found that there were about 6 holes I felt comfortable pushing for the birdie look, so I guess for me pushing my comfort zone on shots during non rated rounds has helped lead to better rated rounds.

With the 350' example hole you gave I think that would be a fun one to play a handful of aggressive shots on and note the results. For myself for instance, I'm likely looking at being 20-30' short even on my best drives, so depending how close to the basket the guardians are and how close to OB they are I might find that my disc is so low, or traveling downward enough that even if I hit a guardian I'm unlikely to have enough height/speed left on the disc to kick OB. At that point, might as well try for it. I would think the same could apply even to longer arms, disc down to something that's falling down at 330' instead of throwing a big hyzer flight with something that goes 400-450' and aiming to park the pin.
On the other hand, if the guardians are 200' down the fairway I'm likely laying up just like you because I may not trust myself to get max distance and hit the gap 2/3 of the way down the fairway. I'm going to expect that my competitors in the same division are likely having the same issue, some will kick OB and be scrambling for a 4, a couple will get lucky and sneak through for a 20-30' birdie putt (which they might miss) and a few will lay up and take an easy 3, assuming they execute both their 150' upshot and putt well.

TLDR: I think my opinion is that ratings and winnings guy are kind of similar. For instance I'm 870 rated so if I want to win in MA3 on any given weekend I probably need to be shooting above my rating and turn in 920-930 rated rounds. I suspect relaxed guy probably is one of those guys who cashes most of the time. He doesn't usually spend a lot of time being first on the tee order, but while his cardmates flip back and forth between birdies and bogey's he casually collects pars and winds up with a better score at the end of the round.

 

[ChrisWoj]

What makes you a better player, playing to improve your ratings or playing to win? And as a follow up, how does this decision affect your mental state while playing? opcorn:

If you are thinking about anything other than one shot at a time you are screwing yourself. Do your focused best on each shot and wins and ratings are simply by products. That being said, now that we do everything on Live Scoring there are times when thinking about the win can come into play- generally only very late in a round though. I have both benefited and suffered from knowing exactly what I needed to do in an event to win (or cash).

Play to do your best on each shot.

If you succeed on doing your best on each shot, it will get you closer to winning and aid in improving your rating. Focus on one thing at a time and that should be the shot you are making.

I think that these are two different discussions. Being "ratings dude" or "winning dude" seems, to me, to be more of a pre-tournament mental state. It does not seem to be about how capable you are of focusing on every single shot that you care about as much as it is about whether you will reach a point where you no longer care about executing every shot.

If "ratings dude" is mentally capable, he will be focusing on every single individual shot from the first tee through the final putt, no matter how the event is going. "Winning dude" on the other hand could focus on every single shot, but if the desired outcome appears out of hand "winning dude" will transition to not caring about focusing on every shot because he'd rather either a) enjoy the rest of the day (become "relaxed dude") or b) insulate himself from self-blame for the rest of the performance and the overall score.

By insulate - I mean that the player stops focusing in an effort to pull the score far enough out of line from usual skill level that it is impossible for others (or even himself) to really just look at 'how he played' from the overall score line.

For me... I kind of vacillate between ratings guy and winning guy. During some stretches of a season I may care about just maintaining my rating, at other times I care more about the winning. The real growth in maturity for me has been the shift from (b) to (a) when I'm playing in winning guy mode and the desired outcome slips out of reasonable reach. For a long time when I'd fall off from winning or cashing (depending on field) I'd pout and tank and just hide from the failure. Now, and for a few years now, when I fall way off I just try to have a good time with my group and enjoy myself and the people I'm with.

 

[ru4por]

I want to have fun. Ratings mean zero, I play in an Advanced division with no ratings cap. i play to win, but my victory is realized by conquering the course. Every throw is my battle, the trees, branches, terrain, green, wind...all my foe. The tournament is complete when the old guys go to chairs, open some beer and regale one another of the detail of the individual skirmishes.

Ratings.....winning....all simple by products of the quest to enjoy life and do something we love. Life and work are difficult and leisure/recreation time valuable. I have no need to label it or place expectations on it. I honestly play to have fun. Don't know that I can think of a time when I failed.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

Regarding tournaments specifically, ahead of time I'm totally rating's guy. I like to check out a few previous tournaments at that course to get an idea of what I should be shooting to be in the hunt for a win or cashing. Mostly that just serves to remind me that in MA3 the competitor who collects the least amount of bogeys generally has the best shot at winning.

Once the tournament arrives I'll try to play like relaxed dude, but that's only because I want to be winner dude and ratings dude has already done his research and assured me that 15 boring pars plus 2-3 birdies on the easiest holes should be enough to get there.

In casual/practice/league rounds I generally go for the lower percentage shots almost every time. I feel like that helps me raise the ceiling of what a safe shot is for when tournament rounds arrive. I played a tournament this spring and there were only 2 holes I felt were true birdie looks every time I stepped to the tee. I just played that same course for another tournament this past weekend and found that there were about 6 holes I felt comfortable pushing for the birdie look, so I guess for me pushing my comfort zone on shots during non rated rounds has helped lead to better rated rounds.

With the 350' example hole you gave I think that would be a fun one to play a handful of aggressive shots on and note the results. For myself for instance, I'm likely looking at being 20-30' short even on my best drives, so depending how close to the basket the guardians are and how close to OB they are I might find that my disc is so low, or traveling downward enough that even if I hit a guardian I'm unlikely to have enough height/speed left on the disc to kick OB. At that point, might as well try for it. I would think the same could apply even to longer arms, disc down to something that's falling down at 330' instead of throwing a big hyzer flight with something that goes 400-450' and aiming to park the pin.
On the other hand, if the guardians are 200' down the fairway I'm likely laying up just like you because I may not trust myself to get max distance and hit the gap 2/3 of the way down the fairway. I'm going to expect that my competitors in the same division are likely having the same issue, some will kick OB and be scrambling for a 4, a couple will get lucky and sneak through for a 20-30' birdie putt (which they might miss) and a few will lay up and take an easy 3, assuming they execute both their 150' upshot and putt well.

TLDR: I think my opinion is that ratings and winnings guy are kind of similar. For instance I'm 870 rated so if I want to win in MA3 on any given weekend I probably need to be shooting above my rating and turn in 920-930 rated rounds. I suspect relaxed guy probably is one of those guys who cashes most of the time. He doesn't usually spend a lot of time being first on the tee order, but while his cardmates flip back and forth between birdies and bogey's he casually collects pars and winds up with a better score at the end of the round.

I need to play more like this and maybe my rating would improve to where my distance says it should be. I'm 867 rated (though probably closer to 900 due to the lack of players in my area and playing bad at Smuggs {836 avg}) and capable of 450' drives and comfortable throwing 375-400. I find myself in more trouble spots than anything especially in league play since I'm trying to find routes to the pin that result in birds. I know there's specific holes that I tell myself to lay up and take the 3 since a 2 is very hard to do and approaching/scrambling is the best part of my game by far. If I would just stick to my game plan and play smart I can win (as my win on my home course proved), but if I don't I'm looking at midpack or worse. Even if I gameplan, and stick to it, I get away from it at the first sign of trouble.

TL;DR, I know what I need to do and what I need to shoot, but lack the mental game to stick to what is tried and true.