ThighMaster move from DG Spin Doctor

I really hate internet fights and I believe we all have better things to do than type heated comments about plastic object being launched in the park. I'm passionate about how to move the body holding a disc, but it's still not important enough for me to fight over it.
 
I really hate internet fights and I believe we all have better things to do than type heated comments about plastic object being launched in the park. I'm passionate about how to move the body holding a disc, but it's still not important enough for me to fight over it.
I'm in the same boat, and to be honest, I'm in sort of an information overload phase, where it's quite frankly hard to tell what to do any more. That said, I love it when the disc golf coaching community moves the ball forward.
 
As hypocritical as it may sound, I only want to leave the world a tiny bit better place. Whatever legacy we have left is not entirely in our own hands, but I'm interested in helping people and maybe being remembered as a guy who taught them to throw frisbees more efficiently and to enjoy their weekends more. There are a lot of good causes to focus on, but at the moment, it seems like my skills are best suited for recreational sports and pastimes, so I teach people how to enjoy the game of disc golf a little more. And maybe their bodies in the meantime.

That's why I'd instead avoid internet battles or feuds with "competing" coaches and have stopped commenting on others' videos unless I have something positive to say. It is not my intention to outsmart anyone, no matter how much it gained clicks and subscribers. That is why it sometimes comes off as challenging me to a battle when people flock to my comment section to teach my viewers "the correct way" instead of listening to this quack of a doctor*.

*I'm not an actual doctor.
 
I love when videos, like Jaanis in this case, get posted and discussed in here (in a civil manner). Because most times the pros and cons get elaborated a little more into details and might help people like me, to understand the stuff even better.

I need to rewatch the video to make sure I got it right, so I can try it out in the field.

I wonder if the "cue/drill" might actually help me to stay behind the brace, instead of tipping over it. Time shall tell!

Thanks for commenting in here @Jaani
 
I love when videos, like Jaanis in this case, get posted and discussed in here (in a civil manner). Because most times the pros and cons get elaborated a little more into details and might help people like me, to understand the stuff even better.

@Jaani @Kennets to be sure, this is the only reason I comment and use words, images and videos to compare and contrast concepts. I appreciate it when people actually share and discuss ideas, especially when they may appear to disagree, conflict, or emphasize things in different ways. My goal is almost always to try and understand and air out the contents. Nothing more, nothing less. So I appreciate it when people who share contents are willing to come to places like this or discuss them privately.

Thanks for commenting in here @Jaani
Agree :)

I'm off to a round with my 2 year old, let's she if she pulls out the chicken wing or a hula hooping backhand...
 
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I have 2 bad knees (never actually ripped something apart, but I were born with them being terrible.).
[COLOR=var(--text)]I have never once played and felt any pain in the knees afterwards, but I know that mentally, I'm afraid of bracing.

if I were to use this mental cue of "thigh master", trying to push my thighs together, would that put more pressure on the knee? I would think that trying to push your lead legs thigh backwards could lead to there being more pressure on a slightly bend knee? (I know some guys can brace pretty good with a slight bend in the knee). Please correct me if I'm wrong about the mental cue or just wrong in general.

or is it more about the rear leg thighs moving forward? (Like it normal would with a right brace and posture, just with a little more HNNG)

as usual, English isn't my first language, I'm sorry if something gets lost in translation. [/COLOR]
 
It would but less pressure to your knee, because pushing it inwards activates the muscles keeping the joint together and not letting snap sideways.
 
Thank you Jaani, appreciate the answer. I'm a big fan of your videos btw, glad to see you're "back".

I'm gonna try it tomorrow and see if I can get it going! Shadow swinging as I type, doesn't feel any harder on the knee, but better be safe than sorry.
 
I believe the biggest added benefit from ThigMaster is the fact that you might get more balance and support, which allows you to let loose and give it your all. Could be, that your body gets faster just from the momentum only, but in the end this could have more to do with mentality than physicality. I really don't know, as I said in the video, but it feels tremendously better to do than not.
 
What Jaani is teaching in this is an active move, what SW22 was teaching in his video from 1982 seems more of a passive controlled reaction.

I can see the frustration from Jaani on the subject because I saw the comments and I've discussed this idea with him prior to this. So when someone comments on your video on youtube and says "I did this already in this video" it seems a bit annoying to the creator. Especially when it's not really the same concept. It doesn't really open up any level of discussion on the topic.



I'm in the same boat, and to be honest, I'm in sort of an information overload phase, where it's quite frankly hard to tell what to do any more. That said, I love it when the disc golf coaching community moves the ball forward.

Apply K.I.S.S. always. =)

 
You know Seabass, it's really hard to know what your intentions are and messages mean when, most the time, you don't reply with words but only gifs and embedded videos. That leaves a lot for interpretation. And for me, it comes off a bit arrogant to not communicate with full sentences or words. Maybe it's just me, dunno.
I think that says more about you, than it does me. I wasn't even responding to you on here, but someone else's post for request of more info. I post facts/info, not emotions. I thought we were on good terms with each other after all the private talks we have had in the past.

Arrogant is saying this is going to revolutionize something like Mr. Spin and Throw.

 
Just another content/compare and contrast point from motion experiment this morning. This is mostly for my own benefit before I forget and in the event that a small handful of people find this interesting...

I think in the extreme there are two ways to do the hip adduction component: (1) is more in sequence and (2) is somewhat out of sequence and compensatory for being otherwise at least slightly off balance. So I'll frame their function & efficiency with respect to balance. I think it has to do with whether or not the adduction is "leading" the balance moving back and forth or "following" it.

I guess I can use Hershyzer drill as the basis of reference just because I Understand it well enough in my own motion and because I previously found lots of ways to do it inefficiently.

In one case, the hip adduction of the trailing leg (x-step leg) is there as part of the move in balance standing on the rear leg to help maintain balance and helping to "carry through" the action of the trailside leg into the counterbalance. If the tilted axis (especially North-South) direction is there in both the reachback/backswing and carried through into the plant, the hip adduction seems to carry the trailside leg into the counterbalance/kick behind naturally in the tilted balance. I might not be saying that right but I think this is one of the functions of Riding the Bull or can be practiced in various other "tilted axis" motions in Turbo Encabulator, Double dragon, etc.

The other way to do it is when the trailside leg and hip adduction are forced/compensating for either (1) not tilting properly in the rear side and/or (2) too little, opposite (or "over the top") tilt, where more hip adduction can help to fake the balance and compensate to an extent for initially behind off balance. I think this means there is (1) initially less hip adduction and activation and (2) to compensate, the hip adduction kicks in (ha) kind of late and "saves" part of the balance by pitching the tilt a bit, but later than is probably ideal and with less initial loading from the rear leg (i.e., somewhat less quick shift).

I also found a variant of this second "late adduction" move that is kind of sneaky and also probably not ideal. If I make my weight shift more like a spin shift in a vertical axis, I can use more hip adduction to kind of "induce" more tilted axis as I transition into the plant. I think it would be super easy to confuse this last move as a "good" move because you can still shift quickly and it looks and feels tilted, but the relationship of how the center of mass moves changes. I think this move is dynamically less stable in general, and if I slow down it becomes clear that it's more compensatory than a balanced move, and takes the throwing axis over on a completely different plane. I think this move explains part of why some people get their lower body out of sequence and appear even more closed off in the plant than necessary because they are trying to trap the momentum of the spin shift into a downfield shot, but really what's happening is they're compensating for being at least momentarily out of balance. I think it also necessarily affects the sequence and loading in the upper body, and the move through the upper body must become "burstier" and potentially more strenuous to commit the shot. I've seen people use this move and I think comparing it to the others made me Understand it better physically even if the words are lacking.
 
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Arrogant is saying this is going to revolutionize something like Mr. Spin and Throw.


Yea, I guess you don't read emotions and nuances like self-irony.

Again, this technique has nothing to do with any of your techniques as far as I can tell, but I guess you're pissed off that "plagiarize" your inventions. Or that's how it sounds to me.

Also I've heard from several sources that you have taught me the form I now teach. I haven't told anyone this, so I wonder what the source might be...

We had a few convos years ago, but I wouldn't go as far as saying I learned my style from you, especially since I've been in the game this long and spend quite a lot of my time studying this silly game.

These things add up.

Tell you what. If you leave my video comment sections, I leave your forum? Win win?
 
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Despite my better judgment, I went to the comment section of the video at the top of the thread.

I was a little surprised about what just unfolded because in the video Jaani (1) asked for comments and (2) said there was "a slight chance that this could revolutionize everything we thought about the brace."

I'm honestly confused what the issue is in this case because all I see Sidewinder commenting was that he talked about what he perceived to be the same concepts before in a couple of his videos. I do not see an explicit claim about ownership in the comments, at least as they stand right now.

As far as I can tell you guys agree much more than you disagree on this point mechanically to at least a certain level of approximation. You are either both talking about the "same" thing, or talking about a "different" thing, in which case personal opinions or the drive to obtain social media engagement aside, it would be interesting to discuss.

It is possible that the real issue is not about the video, comments, or the content, which could unfortunately mean there is no discussion. That would be a shame!

Interestingly, you appear to both explicitly agree on a version of the "tilted spiral" too per the comments there.
 
Honestly, the worst thing about being a DG coach (even a part time online video maker) is the silly competition vibe I get. Maybe it's only a small part, but sometimes I feel there are petty ownership disputes here and there. I've gotten my share of plagiarism accusations, claiming that all I do is copy americans (Seabass and Aderhold) and claim it my own. Truth is, I rarely watch any form videos of other coaches. I'm not interested in them, really. I guess it sounds weird, but my feed is full of social and cultural commentary, not disc golf. I follow Josh.

And at some point people wanted me to make videos about Slingshot (which is tempting, but not my style) and so on, and so on.

I just don't feel it's best code of conduct to come to other coaches channels to post your own tips and videos. And it gets weirder since there are nothing else but the titles of these videos, allegedly targeting the same issue but I guess, better and way before me. This is the vibe I get anyway.

I'd rather post stuff and let it be until I post more stuff. Like the olden days when there was no social media, and you had to order a DVD to see what's new in sport.
 
I have 2 bad knees (never actually ripped something apart, but I were born with them being terrible.).
[COLOR=var(--text)]I have never once played and felt any pain in the knees afterwards, but I know that mentally, I'm afraid of bracing.

if I were to use this mental cue of "thigh master", trying to push my thighs together, would that put more pressure on the knee? I would think that trying to push your lead legs thigh backwards could lead to there being more pressure on a slightly bend knee? (I know some guys can brace pretty good with a slight bend in the knee). Please correct me if I'm wrong about the mental cue or just wrong in general.

or is it more about the rear leg thighs moving forward? (Like it normal would with a right brace and posture, just with a little more HNNG)

as usual, English isn't my first language, I'm sorry if something gets lost in translation. [/COLOR]
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I agree with Jaani and sidewinder that this should be perfectly safe for your knees if done in good sequence and balance (barring any specific issues/consult a physician as needed etc).
 
Honestly, the worst thing about being a DG coach (even a part time online video maker) is the silly competition vibe I get. Maybe it's only a small part, but sometimes I feel there are petty ownership disputes here and there. I've gotten my share of plagiarism accusations, claiming that all I do is copy americans (Seabass and Aderhold) and claim it my own. Truth is, I rarely watch any form videos of other coaches. I'm not interested in them, really. I guess it sounds weird, but my feed is full of social and cultural commentary, not disc golf. I follow Josh.

And at some point people wanted me to make videos about Slingshot (which is tempting, but not my style) and so on, and so on.

I just don't feel it's best code of conduct to come to other coaches channels to post your own tips and videos. And it gets weirder since there are nothing else but the titles of these videos, allegedly targeting the same issue but I guess, better and way before me. This is the vibe I get anyway.

I'd rather post stuff and let it be until I post more stuff. Like the olden days when there was no social media, and you had to order a DVD to see what's new in sport.

I'm not gonna sit here, pick sides or pretend I know people, when I don't. But.

Seabass does have a.. funny way of communicating at times. I've been asking questions (plenty of them) where I get a video back as response , where some dude is riding a pool cue with a beer in his hand.. and it took me a while to get what the fuck was happening lol.

Whenever I seek more words, I usually PM Brychanus and get a 400 page essay back.

This is just guessing, but I would bet that Andrew means NO harm and you're taking his words in the wrong way Jaani. As an outside reader of your YouTube video, I could see how you or other people would take his comment as a "brag" or something like that - I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

I believe that it's more of a "hey, watch this. I've covered something on the subject before that you mind find helpful". Or an Invitation to an open debate. Should it be communicated on your video, with the exact wording? Probably not.
 
Honestly, the worst thing about being a DG coach (even a part time online video maker) is the silly competition vibe I get. Maybe it's only a small part, but sometimes I feel there are petty ownership disputes here and there. I've gotten my share of plagiarism accusations, claiming that all I do is copy americans (Seabass and Aderhold) and claim it my own. Truth is, I rarely watch any form videos of other coaches. I'm not interested in them, really. I guess it sounds weird, but my feed is full of social and cultural commentary, not disc golf. I follow Josh.

And at some point people wanted me to make videos about Slingshot (which is tempting, but not my style) and so on, and so on.

I just don't feel it's best code of conduct to come to other coaches channels to post your own tips and videos. And it gets weirder since there are nothing else but the titles of these videos, allegedly targeting the same issue but I guess, better and way before me. This is the vibe I get anyway.

I'd rather post stuff and let it be until I post more stuff. Like the olden days when there was no social media, and you had to order a DVD to see what's new in sport.
FWIW: I'd like to keep talking rather than people being shut down.

I think it's impossible to keep track of the sheer amount of "content" coming out these days. So I am understanding when someone doesn't notice a specific thing, or even sees the "same" thing and doesn't recognize it as such.

Probably one of the things that can be challenging is when someone claims something is new or novel, and someone who had said or shared it before sees it and says "hey, I said or shared that before."

This literally still happens in top journals in neuroscience. the same dynamic plays out more or less publicly sometimes. You'd think that social media would make it better, but it's just worse because you have a weird combination of (1) more access and visibility but (2) less time to consume the overwhelming amount of content. I do think there is the (usually) small minority of (3) people intentionally passing off things as "owned" or new.

Personally I try to avoid this issue by never really trying to say I'm saying something new unless I'm 100% convinced it is, and I've realized that this is almost impossible in disc golf because I can't possibly see it all. I also don't mind it when I say something and someone points out something similar they've seen or done before. In my day job I usually just say "thank you", acknowledge the source in the future, try to learn from it if I have time, and move along.

One thing I personally think is going on is that sidewinder had probably the largest and most developed set of content and drills before it became popular to do that on YouTube. It is very rare that I see something that wasn't at least mentioned or shown in some capacity in there, but it does happen. And on the other hand, I am alarmed at how often I go back to something I already saw and noticed it only on the 20th viewing.

So where is the onus for "novelty" claims? Should there even be one? Didn't sidewinder also build a lot of his content and theories on other sources and adapt them for disc golf? Would I forgive him for an omitted citation? I don't have an answer for that since this is all in the public, free domain. But because it is free and public, some people will talk about it, inevitably.

FWIW too: I've mentioned a few things about instructors around here but I think the majority of coaches are pretty politic about avoiding public "hit pieces." I'm here and elsewhere to learn about mechanics and coaching, personally. It's all I care about. Others may have different goals, and that's ok with me.

I'm hoping when it comes to learning to throw frisbees we all know that at some level it's a silly and joyful thing. So I'm in some sense really just replying out of a spirit of learning and community whether or not any given individuals are going to get along or not.
 
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I agree with Jaani and sidewinder that this should be perfectly safe for your knees if done in good sequence and balance (barring any specific issues/consult a physician as needed etc).

I haven't felt any pain, strain or any other uncomfortable stuff in the knees for at least 6 years , it's more of a mental thing these days. I'll try it out, slowly adding more momentum in it!

Thanks for your input
 
I always tell it in my videos if I teach something I directly learned from someone else.

I have cited Dan Beto, Spin and Throw, Otfried and Feldy, and the latest was by Robert from S&T group. I have no reason to hog ownership to knowledge, which again, I believe is to be spread freely and let grow with people.

And yes, Kennets, I think you are correct.
 

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