My Buddy's First Bag

[Asvetic]

I've been working with a friend, slowly getting him into disc golfing regularly. We've played several times and he's got a nice solid throw with a natural hook. Very natural. He's been playing with the same 2 discs (some fairway driver he picked up at a World's Biggest Disc Golf Weekend in 1992 and a Zephyr putter that's about 10 years old) for too long now. And I've been on his case about getting his own discs (he usually borrows and loses mine.)
So considering his strengths and weaknesses we selected these 4.

Distance Driver: Starfire SL (10, 5, -1, 2, 165-170g) http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/starsl.html
Fairway Driver: Valkyrie Pro (9, 4, -2, 2, 165-170g) http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/starvalkyrie.html
Mid-Range/Approach: Coyote DX (4, 5, -1, 1, 170-174g) http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/starcoyote.html
Aviar DX (2, 3, 0, 1, 165-170g) http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/staraviarpna.html

This will give him a fresh start, and I think I'll be able to help him develop his game even further. I love getting people into the sport.

 

[Three Putt]

I've been working with a friend, slowly getting him into disc golfing regularly. We've played several times and he's got a nice solid throw with a natural hook. Very natural. He's been playing with the same 2 discs (some fairway driver he picked up at a World's Biggest Disc Golf Weekend in 1992 and a Zephyr putter that's about 10 years old) for too long now. And I've been on his case about getting his own discs (he usually borrows and loses mine.)
So considering his strengths and weaknesses we selected these 4.

Distance Driver: Starfire SL (10, 5, -1, 2, 165-170g) For new players I stay away from distance drivers and tell them to stick with a fairway driver until they can get it out to about 300 ft. If you can't hit 300 ft with a fairway driver you can't throw a high speed disc anyway. But, you said he has been playing, so maybe he can. An SL is a pretty good high speed driver to start with. http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/starsl.html
Fairway Driver: Valkyrie Pro (9, 4, -2, 2, 165-170g) A Valk is too fast for a control driver. An Innova TeeBird, Eagle or Gazelle, Discraft XL or Cyclone or Gateway Sabre are the best choices for a control driver IMO.http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/starvalkyrie.html
Mid-Range/Approach: Coyote DX (4, 5, -1, 1, 170-174g) There are two mids, the Roc and the Buzzz. If you are throwing anything else, you are just fooling yourself. (Sorry for the Coyote slight, Phil ) http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/starcoyote.html
Aviar DX (2, 3, 0, 1, 165-170g) Perfect. After throwing that trashcan lid excuse for a golf disc Zephyr, he should love an Aviar.http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/staraviarpna.html

This will give him a fresh start, and I think I'll be able to help him develop his game even further. I love getting people into the sport.

All in all he has some pretty good discs to work with. If I could change one thing it would be your control driver. I recommend all new players start with a Gazelle or D Cyclone as they are easy to control and you can put them on different lines easier than faster discs. You can really learn to control your discs throwing those two rather than expecting the disc to do all the work for you.

 

[Asvetic]

Great points. I wasn't even thinking of starting him at a slower disc speed (my first driver was a Raven). From our regular outings, he can keep up with me. Mostly out of sheer strength. I think he'll do well with the faster disc speeds. His snap still has some room to grow however, he throws a lot of hooks. I think the Valk will be a worthy driver for him. After his snap and accuracy develop more the SL will be just right.

We play a lot of medium courses that don't demand huge drives. But in 2 weeks I'm taking him to Codurus to play both courses. The Blue course (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=37) is just right at his current speed and skill level. The Red (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2739) will be more demanding and really show his weaknesses. I want to see how well he can throw a distance drive, and hole 18 on the Red course is perfectly suit for that.

 

[garublador]

Great points. I wasn't even thinking of starting him at a slower disc speed (my first driver was a Raven). From our regular outings, he can keep up with me. Mostly out of sheer strength. I think he'll do well with the faster disc speeds. His snap still has some room to grow however, he throws a lot of hooks. I think the Valk will be a worthy driver for him. After his snap and accuracy develop more the SL will be just right.

I'll agree to drop either the SL or Valkyrie (keep the other) for an actual fairway driver. Part of the point of a fairway driver is that it has less speed than either of those two discs. He'll learn much, much more from one of the control drivers Three Putt listed than he would from a Valk and SL put together.

 

[Midnightbiker]

I say start out with an XL or JLS as a driver/fairwaydriver for now. As a beginer, you don't want to carry too many discs in your bag.

For Midrange, I say try a Panther. I have found they are more easy to control than the Coyote.

The Putter is a good choice. That or a Magnet, make great putters for beginners.

 

[Asvetic]

I might have a Teebird or Eagle lying around here somewhere that I can relinquish to him. However, I'm still going to push him to use the Valk. If he was a true beginner, I'd definitely be starting him out with a slower driver, as Three Putt suggested.

I want him to learn the necessary techniques to throw a fast distance driver. You can't just walk up and chuck it, you need to be able to incorporate the X-step. You need to have a strong snap to keep that disc going straight and long. If I gave him a slower disc, I don't think he'd see or feel the need for such foundation building.

 

[Three Putt]

Well, you are putting a lot of thought and effort into this, so I'm sure he will be fine. Having a friend like you that is willing to help goes a long way, so good luck and thanks for taking the time to introduce disc golf to a friend.

I've been playing for close to 20 years, and the closest thing to advice I've ever gotten from anybody is comments like "Does you husband play disc golf, too?"

 

[Asvetic]

Well, you are putting a lot of thought and effort into this, so I'm sure he will be fine. Having a friend like you that is willing to help goes a long way, so good luck and thanks for taking the time to introduce disc golf to a friend.

I've been playing for close to 20 years, and the closest thing to advice I've ever gotten from anybody is comments like "Does you husband play disc golf, too?"

Thanks. I'm gonna turn him into a worthy opponent. I don't have a lot of DG friends, and the few that I can get to play just aren't as interested in learning the real skills to play well. So, I guess I'm putting this guy on the fast track so I have someone to play with that gives me a run for my money (and forces me to play harder.)

I hope when you go out with those guys, you're giving them a run for their money too. 20 years... you've probably got a few tricks up your sleeves.

 

[garublador]

First off, how far are you guys throwing and with what disc?

I might have a Teebird or Eagle lying around here somewhere that I can relinquish to him. However, I'm still going to push him to use the Valk.

I'd say that's fine, but then you wouldn't need the SL.

I want him to learn the necessary techniques to throw a fast distance driver. You can't just walk up and chuck it, you need to be able to incorporate the X-step. You need to have a strong snap to keep that disc going straight and long. If I gave him a slower disc, I don't think he'd see or feel the need for such foundation building.

How can you possibly throw advanced discs without building and maintaining a foundataion? Unless you're already cashing in the pro division, there is a lot to be learned from the slower drivers. All you'll get from faster drivers is making sure you're throwing nose down and unless you have the skills to throw a putter, midrange and fairway driver far, you'll probably be introducing bad habits that will limit distance, accuracy and line shaping skills. Everything about snap, footwork and timing is much easier to learn with slower discs.

I understand you want him to learn quickly, but that's why I'm giving this advice. It's a lot faster to start off with good habits than trying to go back and fix bad ones. I know from experience.

 

[petecarp]

can you expand on these bad habits? my first driver high speed driver was an SL and i want to make sure i didnt develop any of these, but maybe i had a good foundation from playing ultimate with discraft ultrastars for 8 years. i can consistently place drives in the 350'-400' range both forehand and backhand

 

[Three Putt]

How can you possibly throw advanced discs without building and maintaining a foundataion? Unless you're already cashing in the pro division, there is a lot to be learned from the slower drivers. All you'll get from faster drivers is making sure you're throwing nose down and unless you have the skills to throw a putter, midrange and fairway driver far, you'll probably be introducing bad habits that will limit distance, accuracy and line shaping skills. Everything about snap, footwork and timing is much easier to learn with slower discs.

I understand you want him to learn quickly, but that's why I'm giving this advice. It's a lot faster to start off with good habits than trying to go back and fix bad ones. I know from experience.

This is 100% truth. I love it when I don't have to be the bad guy.

The truth of the matter is that most players, including guys who play AM in a lot of PDGA tournaments, use poor disc selection. There are a lot of guy who are pretty good players throwing the TeeRex and Destroyer who have no business throwing a disc that fast, and they mess up their mechanics to throw them. You CAN sacrifice your form to pick up 15 more ft off the tee, but your ultimate reward will be inconsistency, inaccurate throws, and poor course management. Around here you will get a nice case of Poison Ivy as a bonus.

If you want to score as low as possible and have the best overall game, you have to understand your limitations and choose your discs accordingly. Recently I've had an accident and my knees are pretty much shot, and it took a while for me to understand that the Starfires and Infernos I was throwing were not going to work with the new reality of the power I'm generating. The fastest disc in my bag now is a Valk. That is the max amount of disc I can currently use, anything faster is a waste of my time. If I start to see some better results in my D from the Valk, I'll test some SL's or Orcs during field throwing and see how I'm doing, but right now I'm not going to sacrifice my accuracy to get the couple of extra feet I can get from an SL.

As my power has decreased the distance I get from a driver VS a Roc has also decreased. I'm still getting a pretty good rip from a Roc, so I've been discing down a lot. A lot of rounds now I don't even bother with the drivers. If the shot is 500 ft with a tight fairway, it's going to take me two shots no matter what I throw so I'll take my chances with an accurate Roc drive and nice look at the basket on my upshot while you try to pitch your second shot 100 ft up from me from behind a bush with no look at the basket. Sometimes shorter is better.

There is a thread on here, something to do with what is your one "go-to" disc. Almost everybody posted a driver. If we are playing for money, I want they guys who always go for the driver on my card. It helps keep my wallet full. Big D off the tee is cool, but you drive for show...you putt for dough.

 

[garublador]

can you expand on these bad habits? my first driver high speed driver was an SL and i want to make sure i didnt develop any of these, but maybe i had a good foundation from playing ultimate with discraft ultrastars for 8 years. i can consistently place drives in the 350'-400' range both forehand and backhand

First, that's a very impressive forehand. I'm jealous.

How far can you throw fairway drivers, mids and putters?

There are two ways to get a disc go flatten from a hyzer or turn over: a combination of speed and nose down or off-axis torque. High speed drivers require more speed and more nose down to turn. Unless you are lucky enough to happen to naturally use really good technique (in which case you'll be throwing fairway drivers >400'), you'll proabaly end up compensating for a lack of nose down with your high speed drivers by adding off-axis torque via wrist roll over or by not utalizing plane preservation with your follow through (following through on a different plane than the one on which you threw). This will cause these drivers to fly alright at lower speeds, but cause lower speed discs to flip uncontrollably. You'll get to a point where you won't be able to improve at all without starting from scratch and you'll be limited as to what types of shots you can perform.

On a side note, being able to control wrist roll and plane preservation is how you are able to shape different lines. Learning to do this intentionally with fairway drivers will open up a whole new world of controlling disc flights.

This is why I'd recommend both a slower, fairway driver and a faster driver. As long as they (and your mids and putters) are flying right, you'll learn line shaping and develop a clean throw from your putters, mids and fairway drivers and you'll learn to throw nose down from your faster drivers.

350'-400' with an SL is good. If you're able to throw stable putters at least 250' and stable mids 300' without them flipping uncnotrollably then you're probably fine. We can talk more either via PM or a new thread (so everyone can follow along) if you don't want to derail this thread too much.

 

[petecarp]

id love to continue this technique discussion, but on another thread so as to not derail this one too much. this is valuable information that should be public on another thread. This can continue on a thread titles "Throwing Techniques".