[Vibram] First run ascent

[smarkquart]

i don't have very high expectations for it. i checked one out weeks ago at a disc golf store, they have that same vibram yellow logo piece embedded in the disc. whereas the putters have it in the center, the driver has it along the rim. strikes me as another gimmicky disc that just doesn't feel right.

With so many discs on the market, there are probably a handful of discs that would be perfect for you. How else is a manufacturer going to break into a certain segment of the market if not for being gimmicky and offering the next big breakthrough? Innova, Discraft, DGA, and Gateway have already covered the insanely warp speed market with the Katana, Nuke, Hurricane, and Ninja.

I like that Vibram is instead approaching the concern of grip instead of distance.

The Ascent gimmicky: Yes.
Vital step forward in disc technology: Possibly, but it is the initiative that is important.

As for the logo on the side, one could make the argument that not having it at all would help with the aerodynamics of the disc, but since the identity of the company is important, having it on the rim has a reason. I believe Steve said during an interview when he introduced the Ascent that having the logo in the rim instead of the center aids in the spinning and airflow over the disc. Having it in the center would disrupt the airflow over the disc, spoiling the central lifting action on it. For a putter, this is not as vital because putting is more about power and accuracy then it is about glide. (Something just came to mind using this line of thought, with little modification to a Ridge like sharpening the edge and moving the embedded logo could make it into their stable midrange disc)

My experiences with the X-Link Firm Ascents were less than stellar, but from what I am hearing from regular X-Link is rather encouraging. I have a perfectly beaten in Star TeeBird and last week I picked up a new Star Eagle. If the Ascent is truly in between those discs, then that is exactly what I am looking for in a fairway driver. With the harsh winter predicted for this year, having a trusted all-Vibram bag sounds like a good idea.

 

[xJFK]

what's gimmicky about the ascent?

 

[billnchristy]

I respect the effort and $ Vibram is putting into the sport.

That being said, if another manufacturer said 'we're gonna duplicate 1980's to 90's 'teagle' technology, except the disc will be shorter than Innova's original' i'm sure that manufacturer would get SHELLED on here.

I hope they sell a ton of them but I dunno if a shorter eagle will stay in my bag.

Kinda like when latitude released a glidey leopard...I mean really, who the heck would want that....oh nevermind...

 

[EL-KABONG]

uh...ok
The difference is that the River is an improvement.

It's flight has been compared to a handful of discs, probably because it will hold many lines/flightpaths. It's longer than almost any other fairway,

I threw the proto Ascent- it was nice but didn't do a single thing differently than my eagles (except it was shorter).

 

[EL-KABONG]

BTW:
Lat 64 already 'copied' the teagle but at least they modified it slightly and made it a speed 9 version STRIKER!

 

[xJFK]

BTW:
Lat 64 already 'copied' the teagle but at least they modified it slightly and made it a speed 9 version STRIKER!

u mad..

 

[Essington]

do they have the flight numbers on the back, like the putters do? if so, what are they?

I just received my 2 first run Ascents (a 168 and a 175) in the mail today, and they have the Fade/Speed/Turn thing molded on the bottom, but there are NO numbers listed.

Guess I'll have to go out and throw them a bit to see how they fly.

 

[DiscJunkie]

The Vibram flight numbers for the Ascent are listed by Steve Dodge on the Vibram Disc Golf thread.

 

[discspeed]

I respect the effort and $ Vibram is putting into the sport.

That being said, if another manufacturer said 'we're gonna duplicate 1980's to 90's 'teagle' technology, except the disc will be shorter than Innova's original' i'm sure that manufacturer would get SHELLED on here.

I hope they sell a ton of them but I dunno if a shorter eagle will stay in my bag.

Kinda like when latitude released a glidey leopard...I mean really, who the heck would want that....oh nevermind...

uh...ok
The difference is that the River is an improvement.

It's flight has been compared to a handful of discs, probably because it will hold many lines/flightpaths. It's longer than almost any other fairway,

I threw the proto Ascent- it was nice but didn't do a single thing differently than my eagles (except it was shorter).

EL-K is pretty much expressing my sentiments exactly. I too commend them for investing in our sport. I also recognize that Vibram is doing revolutionary work in terms of their materials and molding processes, however, at this point I'm completely unimpressed by their discs. The putters are niche discs...They lack glide and are good in the wind. The VP is OVERstable and the Ridge is slightly overstable. They are both better options than the Rhyno in better plastic. They aren't molds that many good golfers are going to adopt as their main players, but rather discs for specific situations. Any decent golfer I know wants their putter to be more of a "touch" disc than the Vibram line is capable of imo.

I've also thrown the proto Ascents. I found them to have less glide than any of the discs they are being compared to. The amount of effort put into the disc vs. the flight that results is a very poor ratio imo. Especially considering the Ascent has a -HSS, so it's not going to be particularly good in the wind like it's putter counterparts...If a disc is going to lack glide, it may as well be true stable so that it is good in the wind. My assessment of the Ascent is that it is a shorter Stalker with less glide...and the Stalker doesn't have much glide as it is. Most here know that I'm a new disc fanatic. Any company that puts out anything decent pretty much gets a stay in my bag for a time. Anything truly new or fun to throw gets some accolades from me and some thorough testing. Thus far Vibram discs have not turned me on in the least.

I also agree that Lat64's discs are a technological step forward design-wise. They all go incredibly far for the amount of effort imparted on them. Vibram has not offered anything yet that deserves to be compared with Lat64 in terms of disc shape design or flight.

I still think Vibram has a lot to offer. I don't like to rail on them too hard because I like to support innovation, and they are doing some innovative things...These innovations just have not translated into discs that are fun to throw yet...My favorite Vibram DG product hands down are their minis.:thmbup: Those minis fly great and make wonderful chew toys for my 7 month old daughter.

 

[StevenDodge]

What's the easiest way to get a hold of one? I love Teebirds and Eagles!

These folks should all have them now or very very soon.

http://www.vibramdiscgolf.com/resources.html

 

[StevenDodge]

yeah right. vibram makes crappy discs.

This almost seems like an unsubstantiated comment. In response, I would volley back that Vibram discs offer the best combination of grip and durability on the disc golf market today.

You can see my durability tests on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlv5HlAfUx0 (vs grippy discs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAJout_4Suc (vs durable discs)

 

[StevenDodge]

do they have the flight numbers on the back, like the putters do? if so, what are they?

The first runs do not ever have flight numbers on them so we can confirm that they fly as expected before we put the ratings into the mold. There is a batch of X-Link Firm being molded right now which are not officially first run that do not have the flight ratings in them yet as we are trying to get ahead of production before we take the mold out stamp the numbers in.

The Vibram flight ratings of the Ascent are:

Speed 56 / 460
Fade 15
Turn 4

-----------

Two notes:

1. We are tweaking the bottom speed number, changing it from a multiplier to the distance in feet it is designed to fly.
2. For comparison, the Ridges speed numbers are now 52 / 300 while the VPs speed numbers are 60 / 250

-----------

Another issue that is arising is that we mold the ratings into the disc and depending on what type of material, the discs should have different ratings. I'm not sure of the most practical solution for this. The numbers above are for the X-Link material. The X-Link Firm seems to need less speed (probably right around 52 or so, right where the Ridge is). This is a problem with our current ratings on the disc and it is something I'd like to solve long term.

 

[StevenDodge]

i don't have very high expectations for it. i checked one out weeks ago at a disc golf store, they have that same vibram yellow logo piece embedded in the disc. whereas the putters have it in the center, the driver has it along the rim. strikes me as another gimmicky disc that just doesn't feel right.

In order to hold the yellow Vibram label in the mold (without having it flow all over the place), a label well is created. The yellow label is placed in the label well and the X-Link material is put over top of the label.

We moved the label to the wing on the Ascent to avoid adding the extra weight of the label well to the center of the disc. If you look at the bottom of the Summit, Ridge or VP, you will see the underside of the label well in the center bottom of the disc. On the Ascent, the label well is "hidden" in the wing, keeping its weight to the outside.

And so everyone knows, we understand that the Ascent is not the disc for everyone. In fact, if you have slow arm-speed, I would not recommend it for you. It is designed for advanced to pro players who can generate the amount of power necessary to get the consistent and reliable flights it offers (with great grip and durability tied in from the rubber based X-Link material).

 

[Apothecary]

the ascent feels WAY slippery in the hand. the putters drop like rocks. no glide at all. i am not a vibram golf disc fan.

 

[Essington]

So, here are my observations on the first run Ascent after playing a couple of rounds with them yesterday:

I received 2 first run Ascents, a 168, and a 175.

They are way more grippy than the champ, opto, or GL drivers in my bag, so I kept shanking them way off to the right (rhbh) due to a later release.

It may be that these discs are just new (or maybe I'm just puny from having the plague for a week) but, the Ascent seems to require more speed than the other drivers I throw (river, striker, valkyrie). If you don't get them up to speed, they cut pretty quickly hard left. I'll see if that beats out of them as they see more use.

The 175 seemed to fade harder and faster than the 168, but that was at least partially due to my initial speed issues.

Like their putting brethren they take point blank tree strikes quite well. I had a few close encounters with trees due to my late releases, and the Ascent brushed them off just fine, nary a mark.

Once I worked out my speed, release, and nose angle issues, the Ascent was flying pretty straight, and with the correct height would touch down before beginning to fade.

The X-Link material in these first run Ascents seems to be softer and grippier than the regular X-Link Ridge that I have.

The X pattern on the discs is fun to watch spin up as they fly away from you.

That's pretty much it for now. If I have any more observations after playing some more, I'll post them.

 

[Stetz1010]

Dear Mr. Steve Dodge,

My SS-Wizards are way grippier than my X-Link Ridges - I'm going to have to call B.S. on your claim that you guys produce the most durable/grippiest discs on the market today. The Ridge is a good driving putter though, but for putting purposes it has been relegated and replaced by SS-Wizards - So, step your grippy game up brotha.

Love,

Stetz.

 

[Stetz1010]

Oh, and there are too many variables in your "durability testing video" for anyone to be able to take it seriously.

 

[Triflusal]

Dear Mr. Steve Dodge,

My SS-Wizards are way grippier than my X-Link Ridges - I'm going to have to call B.S. on your claim that you guys produce the most durable/grippiest discs on the market today. The Ridge is a good driving putter though, but for putting purposes it has been relegated and replaced by SS-Wizards - So, step your grippy game up brotha.

Love,

Stetz.

didn't he say that they were mainly driving putters? also, X-link soft is extremely grippy if you can handle the floppy, I use my ridge for upshots and it just stops

 

[Triflusal]

Oh, and there are too many variables in your "durability testing video" for anyone to be able to take it seriously.

did you see the grip video? it seems to me if you are throwing SS wizards you probably don't care about durability, although I could be wrong opcorn:

 

[xJFK]

ahh I can't wait for mine to get here. I have quite a few of these bad boys now.. 6 protos and 1 first run.. oh god what have I done.