[Vibram] First run ascent

[StevenDodge]

Dear Mr. Steve Dodge,

My SS-Wizards are way grippier than my X-Link Ridges - I'm going to have to call B.S. on your claim that you guys produce the most durable/grippiest discs on the market today. The Ridge is a good driving putter though, but for putting purposes it has been relegated and replaced by SS-Wizards - So, step your grippy game up brotha.

Love,

Stetz.

Hi Stetz,

Thanks for the honest words. My first request would be to get you to give the Ridge a good washing with Boraxo or dish soap. It sounds like the production folks have decided to not citrus wash the discs and they need to be reminded that this needs to happen.

Regarding the most durable / grippiest discs on the market, I would be happy to put X-Link up against anything on the market (especially after a good cleaning). Use the SS Wiz and the X-Link Ridge for approaches and short drives for a month or so. Let's see which has better durability and grip. I love the nice chalky feeling of some of the SS Wizards. Dave does a good job (although the last batch I got was really slippery, but hopefully that was just a glitch). I also love the nice grippy feeling of the X-Link material, and (except for the possible need of a wash) they are nice and consistent.

Love,

Steve.

 

[xJFK]

hey steve, a couple of my proto ascents have beat in and now have a sort of chalkyness to them. did i get a weird batch? or is it something i can expect cuz i really like it

 

[StevenDodge]

Oh, and there are too many variables in your "durability testing video" for anyone to be able to take it seriously.

Please let me know a better way to do it, or conduct a test for yourself. I've had many people thank Vibram for getting into disc golf because they used to have to buy two to five new putters every year (because they wore out) and now, with Vibram discs, they never needed to buy a replacement.

I'm confident touting their durability based on our testing and the numerous anecdotal reports we've heard.

If you doubt it, try to disprove it. I'll watch the YouTube video, I promise. opcorn:

 

[zenbot]

I like that Steve spends the time to explain his process. When was the last time Dunipace logged in and responded directly to your criticisms?

 

[StevenDodge]

why would anyone want a putter that never "broke in"? i'm getting rid of my VP. not enough grip, not enough glide, *fart noise*

Hi Agent,

If I had a putter that flew well, I would prefer that its flight not change. I may be different than most though. Or were you being sarcastic? If you were being sarcastic, good one. I'll join in the fun, "I bought a new disc today and I can't wait to hit a tree with it so I won't know how it's going to fly."

Have you tried giving the discs a good wash? If not, please mail them to me, I will wash them for you, and mail them back. Seriously.

Quabaug Corp.
Attn: Steve Dodge
18 School St.
N. Brookfield, MA 01524

Hopefully your gas issue clears up.

 

[StevenDodge]

That Vibram rubber has strange properties...My Vibram mini was grippy when I bought it. I left it out in the hot FL sun for like a week in my backyard and it made it stiffer, glossier, and slick. I then accidentally left it in my pocket and it went through the washing machine/dryer. Now it's grippy again, but softer than it's ever been.

The discs at our store vary quite a bit. Some of the regular X-links are very slick, but it feels like the kind of thing that might wear off with play and become grippier. Some of the firms are grippy, but others feel like Teflon. Keep working on it Steve.

The minis are a much more pure rubber (or at least they used to be, we've got new minis coming out in a few weeks I hope). If left out in the sun (like X-Link Soft), they will dry out and become slick. The part of the story that intrigues me is running them through a laundry machine. I may have to test this out.

Regarding the difference in the feel, I am becoming very confident of the lack of (or inconsistent use of) the citrus wash on the discs. And this is disconcerting as we've gone over it before. I will highlight this in the work instructions, thanks to everyone for bringing it up.

Regarding unconstructive criticism, it is usually based in something. The trick for me is trying to pull out the reasoning (if there is any) behind it.

Thanks for the encouragement, we will continue to improve. and to hopefully grow the sport.

 

[StevenDodge]

no seriously. vibram discs suck. almost as bad as aerobie discs. the two are very close on the crap-tastic scale.

Hello Apothecary,

If I was sitting at a table being cool and just wanting to laugh with my buddies, I'd be happy to laugh along, but seriously, we're on a discussion board and in order for me to improve Vibram's products, you need to give some reasons. From the previous posts, would I be correct to assume that you don't like Vibram discs because:

1. Slippery - this may be true and I'm going to go test this out on the most recent discs that have been made. Then I'm going to make some noise and get it fixed.

2. Glideless - on the putters this is true. On the Ascent, this could be true if you don't have enough armspeed. No one disc is going to work for everybody.

I guess that's actually it as far as I can tell. If I said, "company X's products suck", I would basically write them off (and not check their threads on discussion boards). Is this how you truly feel? Or are you willing to see if our next driver may fit your style better? (assuming you've thrown the Ascent and don't have the arm-speed to handle it.)

 

[StevenDodge]

You mean the video where Steve Dodge who represents Vibram took a pile full of putters from all different companies and proceeded to hurl them at a cinderblock wall repeatedly and show a profile of each disc afterwards? Wow, what incredibly groudbreaking testing methods. I mean the dude threw putters at a wall and you consider that a credible comparison of durability?

If I recorded a video EXACTLY the same way he did and you watched it would you take my "scientific results" seriously? or would you think I was an idiot?

I would be interested in this. I've done it many times with consistent results. The X-Link and X-Link Firm discs can take a hit better. We used a wall rather than a tree to make sure the discs all hit the same rather than having some hit at different angles.

 

[Apothecary]

How would you have found out about your precious Ions if not for some good ol' message boarding?


Hustlers gotta hustle, dog.

people wiser than i am would have showed them to me (how i actually found out about them).

Hello Apothecary,

If I was sitting at a table being cool and just wanting to laugh with my buddies, I'd be happy to laugh along, but seriously, we're on a discussion board and in order for me to improve Vibram's products, you need to give some reasons. From the previous posts, would I be correct to assume that you don't like Vibram discs because:

1. Slippery - this may be true and I'm going to go test this out on the most recent discs that have been made. Then I'm going to make some noise and get it fixed.

2. Glideless - on the putters this is true. On the Ascent, this could be true if you don't have enough armspeed. No one disc is going to work for everybody.

I guess that's actually it as far as I can tell. If I said, "company X's products suck", I would basically write them off (and not check their threads on discussion boards). Is this how you truly feel? Or are you willing to see if our next driver may fit your style better? (assuming you've thrown the Ascent and don't have the arm-speed to handle it.)

i think your discs suck for those and other reasons.

other reasons include, but are not limited to:

-being unusable as a dye canvas.

-having your stupid logo so prominently displayed. i want to throw a disc, not a billboard.:\

yes, i really feel this way.

 

[StevenDodge]

Well, the first time I saw it I was actually ,mad and thought it was stupid, then I bought one like 3 months ago and it is still in almost perfect condition. and i also bought a kc pro aviar maybe 2 weeks ago, and the thing is in pretty bad shape (granted its my driving putter, but I throw drives with the ridge too). so I'm using his video to represent my own experiences. I didn't believe the video until I experienced it firsthand.

Thanks. I've heard similiar comments from dozens of folks. I don't take offense when someone does not believe it. We're just used to TV ads making claims and not having anything behind them to back up the claims. I would however ask that same person to go ahead and prove it for themselves before calling me a liar.

 

[sgamerp]

I can't wait til the first runs are done and we can get some for a little cheaper. I think this should be a nice disc to add to the bag.

 

[StevenDodge]

hey steve, a couple of my proto ascents have beat in and now have a sort of chalkyness to them. did i get a weird batch? or is it something i can expect cuz i really like it

I don't know about this. (did you post it previously or did I read it somewhere else). Aaron has been throwing his for close to a full season, I'll ask him what he thinks.

 

[Triflusal]

I think what dodgeman is trying to say is that apothecary doesn't have the arm speed:|

 

[xJFK]

I don't know about this. (did you post it previously or did I read it somewhere else). Aaron has been throwing his for close to a full season, I'll ask him what he thinks.

i think i might've posted it on DGR, or earlier in this thread.. i only noticed it cuz it was a rather dewey (is that the right word?) morning so i had to wipe them off a lot and i noticed when they were dry, they felt kinda chalky

 

[discspeed]

Regarding unconstructive criticism, it is usually based in something. The trick for me is trying to pull out the reasoning (if there is any) behind it.

You are a very patient man (at least in communication, I'll bet you have some more colorful conversations with your buds about some of these guys). It just puzzles me...I don't hype up my sponsors as much as some of these guys are consistently pasting your threads with unintelligible negativity, and I'm being compensated for my discourse. I don't understand the motivation behind it...If you don't like something then explain yourself and move on rather than trying to start a smear campaign. Perhaps all the negative political advertising over the past few months is to blame...

 

[StevenDodge]

i think your discs suck for those and other reasons.

other reasons include, but are not limited to:

-being unusable as a dye canvas.

-having your stupid logo so prominently displayed. i want to throw a disc, not a billboard.:\

yes, i really feel this way.

I have heard this comment about the yellow Vibram octagon on the disc. Some people are genuinely going to dislike it, and we will need to live with that.

I did not realize that the dislike was aesthetic. Thank you.

 

[Triflusal]

You are a very patient man (at least in communication, I'll bet you have some more colorful conversations with your buds about some of these guys). It just puzzles me...I don't hype up my sponsors as much as some of these guys are consistently pasting your threads with unintelligible negativity, and I'm being compensated for my discourse. I don't understand the motivation behind it...If you don't like something then explain yourself and move on rather than trying to start a smear campaign. Perhaps all the negative political advertising over the past few months is to blame...

My guess would be that he cares about the quality of his product and he wants to improve it?

 

[Apothecary]

You are a very patient man (at least in communication, I'll bet you have some more colorful conversations with your buds about some of these guys). It just puzzles me...I don't hype up my sponsors as much as some of these guys are consistently pasting your threads with unintelligible negativity, and I'm being compensated for my discourse. I don't understand the motivation behind it...If you don't like something then explain yourself and move on rather than trying to start a smear campaign. Perhaps all the negative political advertising over the past few months is to blame...

just because you have a reading comprehension problem doesnt make my points unintelligible....

i see all these fanboys who are all into the latest disc craze throwing vibram discs and its hurting their game and they dont seem to notice. so many on here saying 'rarara vibram makes good shoe rubber so their discs must rule too!!'

i guess it pisses me off that some people have such bad taste in plastic.:\

 

[zenbot]

just because you have a reading comprehension problem doesnt make my points unintelligible....

i see all these fanboys who are all into the latest disc craze throwing vibram discs and its hurting their game and they dont seem to notice. so many on here saying 'rarara vibram makes good shoe rubber so their discs must rule too!!'

i guess it pisses me off that some people have such bad taste in plastic.:\

It's not plastic. It's rubber.

Apothecary<-----did not comprehend what he read.

 

[bikinjack]

I'm far from a Vibram expert, but I've never seen one of the putters in white. Steve, do you guys make white discs?