2013 USDGC

[Anon]

Damn. Every single one of those decks would be framed/mounted on a wall if I had them.

Or.... maybe those are just your 'throwaway' decks and you have the REALLY sweet ones already on the wall of the mancave.

AAAAAAAHHHHHHH. CANT TAKE IT.

:: green with envy ::

 

[grodney]

R4 lead card: how many foot faults can you spot on hole 5 up shots? (See mcflysohigh vid)

Stand and Deliver would help.

Shot 2:
Rico - I can't see the mini.
Doss - Probable stance violation -- he's lined up with fairway, not LOP.
Brinster - Almost certain stance violation -- lined up with fairway.
Shusterick - Not shown.

Shot 3:
Rico - Looks okay to me.
Doss - Out of frame.
Brinster - Can't tell for sure, but probably okay.
Shusterick - I can't see the mini.

So I would say 2. Maybe 3 with Brinster's 3rd, but I can't call it from this angle.

 

[_MTL_]

Stand and Deliver would help.

NO!

Ok, yes it would help. But it's not worth COMPLETELY CHANGING THE ENTIRE SPORT simply because of stance violations / players not calling them.

 

[Smigles]

Stand and Deliver would help.

What would help even more would be players watching and calling as it says in the rules. We are the referees. No need to blame the rules if people dont follow their duties.

 

[1978]

Ugg no stand and deliver... so I understand people's need to nitpick. Did any of the stance or faults on hole 5 help the player in any way. I am all about them when it matters (mostly in the woods) but really. I liken this to the NFL or NBA. On almost every play someone is "held" or "hand checked." We cannot burden the sport with silly nitpicking. If it is clear the player got an advantage by lifting a heel on a stretchout shot or threw from the side of his disc giving him a better angle...call the foul. If it is an open field full run-up rip and they touch their mini, really you care? Lets just make basketball a 60 minute freethrow contest. Team with the highest percentage wins.

 

[mashnut]

Ugg no stand and deliver... so I understand people's need to nitpick. Did any of the stance or faults on hole 5 help the player in any way. I am all about them when it matters (mostly in the woods) but really. I liken this to the NFL or NBA. On almost every play someone is "held" or "hand checked." We cannot burden the sport with silly nitpicking. If it is clear the player got an advantage by lifting a heel on a stretchout shot or threw from the side of his disc giving him a better angle...call the foul. If it is an open field full run-up rip and they touch their mini, really you care? Lets just make basketball a 60 minute freethrow contest. Team with the highest percentage wins.

The thing is, there's a disadvantage for the player who really focuses on hitting their lie exactly when others are getting away with putting their full focus on throwing the shot and not getting called for those foot faults. IMO that is enough of an advantage to call those open field foot faults (but not enough of a reason to go to stand and deliver).

 

[Dana]

The thing is, there's a disadvantage for the player who really focuses on hitting their lie exactly when others are getting away with putting their full focus on throwing the shot and not getting called for those foot faults. IMO that is enough of an advantage to call those open field foot faults (but not enough of a reason to go to stand and deliver).

THANK YOU!

Not the first time I've quoted you saying this. I really don't see how people don't understand the advantage gained.

 

[1978]

I think it is too difficult of a target to hit from so far away. The focus should be on the shot, that is the sport. When it is not a shot advantage we need to figure it out. No one has put together a video collage of closeups of the feet of legal throws. "Look how amazingly Paul M. centers his foot right behind the mini." It is not compelling. Again, similar to football; tie all the offensive linemen's hands behind their back and see how well they block the defense. Then we would ensure no holding.

The 4" area where your foot lands might be a little small. Perhaps changing the rule to allow for marking your lie with an actual disc would be most appropriate.

As far as the correct angle to the pin... i usually see this discussed when lining up toward the basket actually helps your next shot. In all other cases on horse shoes or sharp turning fairways, most people line up according to the fairway. It seems odd to force soemone to run from the side of their mini and throw precisely when they step behind it or...line up in a stance facing a wall of trees with the line they need to throw 90 degrees to their right or left. The wording of this rule could use some change in my opinion to allow for line of play or basket. The player announces what his intention is to the group. Basket or line of play. Then the group calls faults based on that. Frees up the silly stance violation commentary.

 

[larrod25]

The thing is, that all of those players were conscious of their lie and made an attempt to get their foot in the right place. I agree with 1978, no advantage was gained, and these players were not simply ignoring the rules.

 

[larrod25]

1978, the foot must be on the line of play, which is not 4" wide. It is a line through the marker. Making the marker larger would not solve anything

 

[KaBooM]

The thing is, there's a disadvantage for the player who really focuses on hitting their lie exactly when others are getting away with putting their full focus on throwing the shot and not getting called for those foot faults. IMO that is enough of an advantage to call those open field foot faults (but not enough of a reason to go to stand and deliver).

True in theory, but it is 100% the same in all other sports. If you are an O-lineman in the NFL it is harder to always keep your hands inside your shoulders and never use them to "pull" a defender a certain way. If you are a WR in the NFL it is much more difficult to go for a ball when you are covered without "touching" the defender with shoulder or arm in order to slow his path to the ball. If you are batting in the MLB it is harder to move your back foot up by 2 inches such that you are now have your entire body "legally" in the batters box. It is much harder to play defense in the NBA without ever employing a handcheck on your man. ETC, ETC.
A similar parallel can be drawn in any sport. Violations that render an advantage should be called "nit picky" fairway foot faults in no way improve the game. I guess the problem is with many disc golfers who get overly wound up in "rules" is that many never really played other sports at competitive levels and have a 1st hand feel for real violations vs. nit picking garbage (which when games get bogged down in a lot of minutia it usually is a BAD game).

Also, don't bring up ball golf. It is a different sport and players don't run up with max effort to launch a golf ball 300 yards. It is a stationary game.

 

[1978]

THANK YOU!

Not the first time I've quoted you saying this. I really don't see how people don't understand the advantage gained.

I understand the advantage. But it is only an advantage because of a tedious rule. It would be sort of like saying...you must throw with your mouth open. Why force players to "think" about something so intently that really has little to do with the actual game. Eliminate courtesy violations...that would keep the player thinking...never know when a cardmate will scream out when you are putting. It is a silly thought...just like in my opinion, the size of the acceptable throwing area.

Increase the mini size or eliminate it and change the stance rules.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

The advatange gained is not the same with every throw/situation which is why foot faults seem to be such a grey area. In most sports it is pretty clear that a rule broken generally impacts the outcome unfairly. Not to mention there is really no piece of ground on a course which is exactly the same (all other sports conform to a court, field etc and it is pretty clear where the lines are for what and who) While in DG its all imaginary and what I see might be different than what you see.

The rule itself is great idea but actually enforceable and increases integrity of the sport? not sure. Its like communism sounds great on paper but never seems to work out'

 

[Dana]

I don't see it as a "tedious rule". Isn't it a major part of the game? Playing your shot on the line of play with the basket (or mandatory)?

 

[1978]

1978, the foot must be on the line of play, which is not 4" wide. It is a line through the marker. Making the marker larger would not solve anything

I separated thoughts by a paragraph. The 2 do not correspond. I understand what line of play is and I think that you should have a choice to play down the fairway...or towards the basket.

*paragraph - new thought - different rule*

When running up on your mini, you have a ~4" area to step in. (there are variations in size of mini's.) this is simply too small. On a teepad you have between 4 feet and 6 feet to plant. Yet, in the fairway on a full run up, you now have to land directly behind a 4" or smaller mini marker. It doesnt make sense.

Rules allow for you to play behind your disc. That gives you over 8" of space to plant your foot. The rules should allow for marking a disc with a disc.

 

[grodney]

When running up on your mini, you have a ~4" area to step in. (there are variations in size of mini's.)

The size of the mini has zero bearing on where you can have your supporting point.

 

[grodney]

Those of you dismissing the importance of hitting your mark -- you just don't get it. Mashnut and Dana are right on here. As long as that's the rule, it *should* be STRICTLY enforced, on ALL shots.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I don't see it as a "tedious rule". Isn't it a major part of the game? Playing your shot on the line of play with the basket (or mandatory)?

MAJOR part I am not sure about. It is a piece of the rules but I am not sure its a major part as there are very few times I can think of where foot fault HELPED as much as they tend to hinder scores. The only thing I can really even compare it to I guess would be traveling in the NBA. It happends but does it REALLY impact the scores/outcome? Its pretty clear IMO the situations where an advantage is given due to a foot fault but for the most part I don't see where that is the case and THE ONLY reason there is an advantage to foot fault in that situation is b/c how the rules are currently.

 

[larrod25]

The line is not 4" wide. Where are you getting that? It is much smaller, has no defined width. Draw a line with a stick that is 30cm long. Your foot has to be on it

 

[Dana]

Really? How is it not a major part of the game? You throw the disc and then you play from where you landed, IN THE LINE OF PLAY.