2015 Ledgestone NT presented by Discraft

[optidiscic]

i was standing in the grassy knoll

 

[Jax11]

The few comments I heard from the am side about that hole were that "you either got a 2 or a 4". The ams felt the island was too small.

I think the island could have either been a little bigger or worked better if there was a circle 3 opportunity from the DZ. Most advanced players are either going to take a 2 or a 4 based on the location of the DZ. Over two rounds with around 9 different advanced players I only saw 2 - 3's one from the DZ one from missing a putt on the green. I saw one 2 scored, and the rest were 4's.

I was definitely bummed in my tournament round when I was 12'-15' away from the bucket but was OB on #12. It was definitely an exciting hole though.

I thought the Hole #9 island at Kennel Lake was brilliant. Nearly the whole island was visible from the tee. It had a decent line to hit. If the pavillion wasn't there I'd love to see it be a little longer. Well done on that hole.

 

[Forester]

OK, been reading most of this thread and might as well throw in my own $.02 even if it's a little late and has already been discussed to death...

I was standing roughly 5 to 10 feet from where John E's drive on Eureaka #2 came to rest. It DID 100% hit a spectator who was lying down. He was lying with his head by the OB rope and John E's purple World (I think it was a World anyways, definitely purple) hit him in his polo shirt where it was loosely over-hanging his waistband. There was a brief "That didn't hit anybody" discussion by those in the vicinity. When a TD came up and asked for clarification, the consensus was "No, that didn't hit anybody". I'm not even sure how many people standing right there knew it had actually hit him but I would guess not that many actually. I didn't say anything but I could have and this is why…

Even if it didn't hit the kid, I'm just a hair shy of completely positive that it would have stayed OB due to its speed, the length of the grass and the angle it had hit the ground. Can you ever be 100% sure? No, but from all of the discs I've ever seen thrown, there was no way that was going to roll or skip in bounds. It's just too bad that he let it affect his game that way.

That being said, this was my first NT and I had a blast and I can't wait to do another one! Can't believe how much planning and effort went in to making something like that come to fruition!

Watch the Jomez video, it wasn't coming back in. Yea it hit somebody. If anything, hitting the spectator almost made it come back in. The other time JohnE thought he hit somebody, hole 5 I think, it has been confirmed by somebody standing there that it did not hit anybody and came in well short of inbounds.

 

[Megiddo24]

Nate delegated the Kennel Lake course to me. So I understand the problem with hole 12. When it was originally designed in the early spring without leaves it seemed a lot more straightforward. The branches dropped significantly making it much more difficult to reach the green. The green could have been extended a little to the left but not knowing if the pavilion was going to be used or not I decided to keep it where we had it. Kennel Lake was gracious to let us use their land but wouldn't close down pavilions and I didn't want anyone getting hurt. if we ever do a tourney there again that hole will tweaked. I wanted it difficult since the island green on 9 was short and very visible. I'm not sure what the stats on 12 are yet, but I'll admit it could have worked a little better. Wanted to reward the player for hitting the green. I apologize to all if that hole wasn't very good. Otherwise, I
hope everyone enjoyed it overall.

 

[araytx]

OK, been reading most of this thread and might as well throw in my own $.02 even if it's a little late and has already been discussed to death...

I was standing roughly 5 to 10 feet from where John E's drive on Eureaka #2 came to rest. It DID 100% hit a spectator who was lying down. He was lying with his head by the OB rope and John E's purple World (I think it was a World anyways, definitely purple) hit him in his polo shirt where it was loosely over-hanging his waistband. There was a brief "That didn't hit anybody" discussion by those in the vicinity. When a TD came up and asked for clarification, the consensus was "No, that didn't hit anybody". I'm not even sure how many people standing right there knew it had actually hit him but I would guess not that many actually. I didn't say anything but I could have and this is why…

Even if it didn't hit the kid, I'm just a hair shy of completely positive that it would have stayed OB due to its speed, the length of the grass and the angle it had hit the ground. Can you ever be 100% sure? No, but from all of the discs I've ever seen thrown, there was no way that was going to roll or skip in bounds. It's just too bad that he let it affect his game that way.

That being said, this was my first NT and I had a blast and I can't wait to do another one! Can't believe how much planning and effort went in to making something like that come to fruition!

Can someone tell me why there are people laying on the ground near an OB line when they are supposed to in the gallery watching?? Please justify this to me. Whether both of JohnE's shots would've "stayed OB in your estimation" or not, please explain why that happens or if it should be allowed.

 

[Pbmercil]

Can someone tell me why there are people laying on the ground near an OB line when they are supposed to in the gallery watching?? Please justify this to me. Whether both of JohnE's shots would've "stayed OB in your estimation" or not, please explain why that happens or if it should be allowed.

Can someone tell me why it's only a big deal if a spectator interferes when a disc is on its way back IN, but nobody cares when a spectator interferes and keeps a disc from going OUT?

 

[tampora]

Can someone tell me why it's only a big deal if a spectator interferes when a disc is on its way back IN, but nobody cares when a spectator interferes and keeps a disc from going OUT?

I can think of 3 people that probably care, your opposing cardmates.

 

[Pbmercil]

I can think of 3 people that probably care, your opposing cardmates.

But yet there is never any controversy about it, never any outcry about why the specators aren't being managed better, no pros whining and griping about the free stroke a competitor got, ect. Remember Ricky at the European Open? Probably not, because nobody cared.

 

[KaBooM]

Can someone tell me why it's only a big deal if a spectator interferes when a disc is on its way back IN, but nobody cares when a spectator interferes and keeps a disc from going OUT?

What is the big deal? They were both errant drives. How many times in ball golf do we see an errant drive go smack into the middle of the gallery? All of the time, they scatter and many a time the balls ultimate lie has been impacted by the gallery. Still the golfer plays the ball from this "altered lie".

 

[Pbmercil]

What is the big deal? They were both errant drives. How many times in ball golf do we see an errant drive go smack into the middle of the gallery? All of the time, they scatter and many a time the balls ultimate lie has been impacted by the gallery. Still the golfer plays the ball from this "altered lie".

I agree 100%. I'm just saying that for some odd reason there is only an outcry about it when a spectator negatively "alters" a lie, and the same controversy never occurs when they positively "alter" a lie.

Pro golf culture is much more accustomed to large galleries. Its old hat to them, but disc golfers are still learning how to deal with it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

One difference is that galleries in ball golf are rarely located in hazard/OB areas along fairways so contact is unlikely to mean a penalty or not depending on which way the ball bounces.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Not really true IMO. I dont even watch much golf but seen plenty of shots go into spectator areas.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Not to divert from this fun conversation about galleries, but I may or may not have been out at Lake Eureka tonight looking at tweaks....

 

[krupicka]

I was the TD walking with the MPO final 9. I noticed the gallery tight on the fairway and it did concern me, but I did not have any way of communicating down there to move them without going down myself. I do not recall any players asking me if I could do something about moving the gallery back either. The short of it is we do need to keep the gallery a little more back from the OB line. (one of the many items on my list to improve for future events) I am currently working on making tip/reminder sheets for both crowd control volunteers and spotters to avoid some of these issues at future events.

 

[teemkey]

Holy crappola you two. Take some time off ...

 

[Pbmercil]

I was the TD walking with the MPO final 9. I noticed the gallery tight on the fairway and it did concern me, but I did not have any way of communicating down there to move them without going down myself. I do not recall any players asking me if I could do something about moving the gallery back either.

I think some of the onus is on the players to say something if they think the gallery is coming into play. I remember at the UDGC last year McBeth waited a solid 10-15 minutes to tee off on 888 until he was satisfied with the position of the gallery. Nobody had a problem with respecting what he thought was the best place for the spectators given the shot he was trying to take.

 

[araytx]

But yet there is never any controversy about it, never any outcry about why the specators aren't being managed better, no pros whining and griping about the free stroke a competitor got, ect. Remember Ricky at the European Open? Probably not, because nobody cared.

Wrong! I don't think spectators should EVER interfere! EVER.

I CERTAINLY don't think "watchers" should be laying on the ground, sitting on their lazy esar, or resting comfortably on a chair not paying attention! If you wanna watch sitting down, it's being broadcast live -- get to your living room!

 

[DirtyMeathook]

Not to divert from this fun conversation about galleries, but I may or may not have been out at Lake Eureka tonight looking at tweaks....

Already working towards next years event. This guy is an animal!

 

[DiscFifty]

I would design something like "yellow or white lines (so players can see them) = ob lines" and "red lines = spectators have to be in back of this line". So if a hole doesn't have a red line, no worries, but on holes where red lines are also located, spectators have to be enforced to be behind these lines. Should be easy enough for everyone to understand.

 

[joecoin]

Wrong! I don't think spectators should EVER interfere! EVER.

I CERTAINLY don't think "watchers" should be laying on the ground, sitting on their lazy esar, or resting comfortably on a chair not paying attention! If you wanna watch sitting down, it's being broadcast live -- get to your living room!

Sorry I'm so lazy.