brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Another memorial, another mcbeth drama...
...#McDrama
...#McDrama
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2016 Memorial Championship presented by Discraft
- Thread starter brutalbrutus
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I went through a few holes and used a stop watch to time their tee shots, yes, I'm extremely bored at work. Hole 1 Philo was at 36.95 seconds, Orum finally threw at 47.93 seconds. Paul and Nate both around 20. Hole 2 Everyone seemed well under the 30 seconds. Hole 3 Philo was up there for 51 seconds.
Now keep in mind, this is with the time starting once the camera shows them on the tee, or when you hear their footsteps, like McBeth does dragging his feet, on the tee. The times are wildly inaccurate at best, but at least gives a ballpark, maybe.
The time starts once they're on the tee right? The rules read 30 seconds after the previous player has thrown and the playing area is clear, I'm omitting the reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc since there is no walking time at the tee other than a few feet. Could that be interpreted as 30 seconds after the last player throws period, if we're talking about tee shots?
Now keep in mind, this is with the time starting once the camera shows them on the tee, or when you hear their footsteps, like McBeth does dragging his feet, on the tee. The times are wildly inaccurate at best, but at least gives a ballpark, maybe.
The time starts once they're on the tee right? The rules read 30 seconds after the previous player has thrown and the playing area is clear, I'm omitting the reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc since there is no walking time at the tee other than a few feet. Could that be interpreted as 30 seconds after the last player throws period, if we're talking about tee shots?
Honestly, the whole time thing is not really a problem for me. Philo had alot of time to waste. He would of been backed up no matter how fast or slow he went. I am not sure if he does this at every tournament but he wasn't holding any other cards up.
mattw
Double Eagle Member
The PGA use to have this problem with certain competitors. They would take for ever on every shot. It finally got to the point that they put in a rule that allows for a player to have strokes added to his score for slow play. They get a couple of warnings first then get stroked for it. Problem is that its done by an official and I dont think they have enough officials to follow all the groups at PDGA events.
mattw
Double Eagle Member
I would agree with this. The whole course seemed backed up. Its the perfect hurry up and wait scenario.
@iDiscGolf
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Matt Orum looked like he was going to throw a roller on every shot when he throws. Was really faking me out
onemilemore
* Ace Member *
Final round lead card starting at 2 MTN like the last few days?
I understand this argument, but here's the thing. If No one on the lead card cares how long you take what are the chances that there other players up the field doing the same thing? I would say its extremely likely (especially considering nikko was a couple cards up). It's speaks to a lack of enforcement of the rules in the whole field. Which is something McBeth has admitted to in interviews, saying that he doesn't really care how long people take. If most of the players in the field don't care about time, and a hand full of players are doing it It can absolutely drag out a round. I'm not saying it's the only reason the round was so slow, I'm sure there were other factors.
It's the culture of non enforcement of the rules that drives me nuts. "I know what the rule says, but I don't care because xyz"
mattw
Double Eagle Member
I am just happy that this isn't another tournament that was over by the end of the third round. Its a lot more fun to watch when you have a large group of competitors within striking distance of the lead.
corin_brown
Eagle Member
Are his McPants ok?
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There is a pace of play section in the competition manual.
Note that the important point is whether you are keeping up with the group ahead, not whether the group behind is being delayed.
I had to point out this rule to one group once. they were 5 or 6 holes behind the group ahead. But, they thought they were OK because the group behind them had fallen back. The group behind you is slowed down by your group and their own delays, so they will almost never stay on your heels the whole round.
From what I say, Philo's group was keeping up with the group ahead of them, so the pace of play rule doesn't apply to them. The 30 second rule still does. I think it should have been called. The result would have been one warning, and for the rest of the round everyone would take less than 30 seconds.
Perhaps some players in the groups ahead needed to be called for time. Perhaps they also didn't think they needed to because they were backed up, or because the lead group wasn't calling it.
If the lack of enforcement added just 15 seconds per group, that's over 11 minutes of delay by the time it works its way all through the field.
Or, perhaps some groups needed to be instructed to keep up with the group ahead.
Perhaps tee times need to be farther apart.
Perhaps the course design is part of the problem. Courses can be designed to play faster, even with par 4s and 5s.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Do they wait for the players to clear the hole on par4s? Or just until they are out of range?
That was an incredibly lucky skip on a terrible shot. My buddy filmed it so I'll have to upload it for you to check out. Unfortunately it was also my worst moment on the green all week. 3 putted from inside 25', when I haven't missed more than 3 other 20-25' putts all week.
The great shot was a 610-40' standstill roller on hole 6 that gave me a very short upshot for birdie 3 in front of doss, Jerm, brinster, Gibson, and more.
Wow, cool! I'd love to see that again. I wish you could have seen McBeth's reaction. He went over to the spot and was showing everybody where it skipped.
I saw that roller as well! That was at the big backup against the wall? Awesome shot. :clap:
GoldeyeGolf
Birdie Member
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I watched the live feed for the first time yesterday, and I guess I'm spoiled by being used to watching the edited 30 minute videos. Regular golf struggles mightily with pace of play issues at all levels, and it seems disc golf had better start making this a priority too, as the plodding slog that was that tournament yesterday was hard to watch.
I thought about going to the upcoming Mishawaka Meltdown to see first hand what high level disc golf looks like, but after seeing that tournament yesterday, I don't think I have the time or patience for it.
I thought about going to the upcoming Mishawaka Meltdown to see first hand what high level disc golf looks like, but after seeing that tournament yesterday, I don't think I have the time or patience for it.
I'd highly recommend at least trying it. I really enjoy seeing them throw. The key is to find a good spot where you can observe a few tees/baskets at once. That way you are not just waiting on one group. (and you can see great shots like gcr_russell's
)It isn't for everybody though for sure. I brought some buddies with who had never been before. One of them really enjoyed it, but the others left after an hour or so. It's interesting to see how the players handle the delays. I'm not sure if it was in the coverage or not, but we got a treat of watching some 2-2 basketball with Melton, Philo, PPeirce and Madison. Other guys just put their headphones in and focus.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Watching in person is a whole different animal. Especially at a course that forces harder shots. Playing doubles or league nights, with some of the 1000ish local pros at Mt Airy or Idlewild, still blows my mind every time I go. I got to see Simon throw a couple times last year. It is amazing how far that guy can throw with little effort.
They're absolutely waiting for players to clear the par 4s rather than throwing when they're out of range. Some will argue that they don't want their discs landing behind players as they're getting ready to throw/putt because they wouldn't want discs landing behind them as they're getting ready to throw/putt.
It's one thing when it's a tweener par 4 that some of them can reach with a big drive, but on most of the holes I watched yesterday, that didn't seem to be the case. MattyO had that one big roller that got him 75-100 feet closer than anyone else, but even that was 100+ feet short of the hole and shouldn't have been an issue for a group putting out.
I see a similar phenomena at the tournaments I run. The course has one par 4, and it only backs up when the MPO groups get there (and clears up once they're gone). And that's because they seem to think they can reach it from the tee (and occasionally one or two get close) so they wait for the hole to clear, whereas every other group in every other division tee off as soon as the group in front is out of their range.
It's one of the unsung benefits to having spotters on holes...not only do they keep things moving by watching discs and preventing long searches or debates about where discs went OB and such, but they can be traffic cops waving groups on when they might otherwise sit and wait. I didn't see a lot of evidence of spotters on the course yesterday. That might play a role as well.
corin_brown
Eagle Member
The "culture of non enforcement?" Please expand on this idea of culture. Sounds like a bigger thing than just speeding players up, but I'm not clear on it.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
As a group can you decide to tee of out of turn, if the first to tee has a much bigger arm than the others? Or perhaps if only one guy says he is gonna go for the green the others can throw their layups?
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