The way I read the rule is same as others—coin flip to see who goes first. Not who chooses the order.
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2022 Playoff Rules change ...
- Thread starter araytx
- Start date
The way I read the rule is same as others—coin flip to see who goes first. Not who chooses the order.
BillFleming
* Ace Member *
My understanding of Competition Manual Rule 1.09.B.2 and your situation is:
By the exact wording (bolded part), it has to be something randomly drawn. A coin flip is not a "random draw".
However, having TD permission to do a coin flip, you did meet the criteria for determining the order. No where does it say that the result/order must be 'set in stone' before the draw. So you don't have to say "low card goes first". You could say "low card chooses if they go first"...that is still determining the order by the random draw. Once the order for the first playoff hole is determined, then the order for any following holes is rotated.
BillFleming
* Ace Member *
Show me where in the rule it says the winner of the draw must go first. It says the order is set by the draw, but not HOW it is set. Letting the winner choose the order is still "setting the order".
Also, by the wording - which is very specific - a coin flip is not permitted as it is not a random DRAW.
(Capitalization for emphasis).
BillFleming
* Ace Member *
I wish I had thought of all this at once and put it in one post....oh, well....
I think one reason for the wording of requiring a random "draw" is that it works for multiple people in a playoff. A coin flip only works for two people...how are you going to use a coin flip to figure out the order of three or four players?
With a deck of cards, the order can be set by either high to low or low to high. Straws of different lengths can be used to set the order. And with those, you only have to draw once to set the order.
I think one reason for the wording of requiring a random "draw" is that it works for multiple people in a playoff. A coin flip only works for two people...how are you going to use a coin flip to figure out the order of three or four players?
With a deck of cards, the order can be set by either high to low or low to high. Straws of different lengths can be used to set the order. And with those, you only have to draw once to set the order.
I think it is implied by the wording. By that I mean what someone said above—heads player A is first or tails, it's player B.
Or it could be short straw or whatever the random selection method is.
I also think you are working really hard to make this one complicated when it is not.
BillFleming
* Ace Member *
This isn't the 1800's. I would just use my phone.
I pretended me, Bill, and Tom, Dick and Harry were in a five way tie and going into a playoff.
Here is the tee order I was randomly given.
My box. Good luck Bill.
Sweet! Back of the Box like usual..... Must be a playoff for DFL since I'm in it.
Seriously though, it would be nice if we could use modern technology. Can't use phones to capture photos/videos of possible rules violations/questions. Can't use the phone to choose playoff order (that's a random choice, but not a random "draw").
Dcinmd
Double Eagle Member
Great everyone watching/recording with their phones instead of where the disc is flying. Your phone is not going to find a disc. I see 5+ hours rounds in the future.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,836
Be careful what you wish for. Video and photo review will come with lots and lots of extra rules like this:
https://unitedumpires.org/pdf/NCAA-Baseball-Video-Review-Regulations.pdf
The TD will need to be able to point to something when they want to convince a player they shouldn't overturn a call based on a photo which was taken yesterday in another group, but was "just like" the situation today.
(Yes, this is a real-life example.)
ILUVSMGS18
Just Another Disc Hoarder
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
- Messages
- 2,473
It's possible. I'm a 400'+ thrower but I putt like MA5 usually, so I'm playing MA2 usually. I've been in divisions with a 250' thrower that is lights out inside 40', so we usually shoot about the same so it could theoretically be possible.
I can respect this interpretation from you & others who feel similarly. I do think that part should be clearer in the rules. As for me, when I TD an event I'll bring about 8 or so playing cards, Ace thru 8 and depending on the number of players each will start the playoff in the position of the card they draw.
"Who gets to call it?" is as trivial to me as "who gets to choose first?" if we are drawing cards or straws. That should be a non-factor. What we did was one would be the flipper and one the caller, and since both of us agreed, that was a non-factor as well (I flipped btw). If we had gone with heads Player A is first and tails player B is first, then I think we would have probably had the player walking with us to flip.
And yes, I actually won on the second playoff hole, kinda like I thought. I went first on the long playoff hole #1 and actually pulled my drive a decent distance but a little left. He was pure but short. So like I thought I could still save an easy par (4) with a Hyzer back to the middle and his approach was still 70' out. We both 4'ed and pushed. On hole 2, the wooded hole where he was first, his driver hit early and ricocheted into the punishing woods right leaving him with not much more than a pitchout. I threw a putter off Tee#2 playing it short to the middle. He decided to go for a little more than necessary and pitched too far left on his second. Seeing that, even though I had a 300-320 woods Hyzer to the basket, I layed up to 150' forcing him to try and get up & down from the left woods. He could only get to about 90-100' and I parked my putter approach, winning it when he had to try & Conrad his approach shot and couldn't .
