500’ standstills - approach to teaching fundamentals

[BenjiHeywood]

I'm 5'10" with a 6'2" wingspan. Was always pissed at how much more weight my buddies with shorter arms could move.

Yeah, but they need a step to get things off the top shelf lol

And yeah, a 6'8 wingspan is not conducive to impressing people in the gym, in my experience.

 

[donatdiscs]

500' standstill is way too easy. I assumed that was a starting point for most of us

 

[Sheep]

Going to have to strongly disagree here. Resistance training increases mobility. That is a scientific fact. We are also not talking about some edge case where Arnold in his bodybuilding prime couldn't utilize the mobility gains because the amount of mass was in his way of being able to scratch his back.

Also low rep = higher strength. Higher rep = lower strength, more cardio benefits, and likely more hypertrophy though those returns diminish as you start getting into really high rep ranges 20-30 IIRC.

I think you are using extremes to prove a point, which I get, but outliers are simply not relevant IMO. Not a scientific fact but my speculation - 99% of people who do resistance training as a means of improving athletic performance in a particular sport have NO concern with reaching a level of hypertrophy that results in an overall performance degradation. Barry Bonds didn't lose bat speed. Pitcher's velocity generally peaks early 20s and is in a steady decline by 26, but Roger Clemens managed to maintain into his 40s. In fairness, steroids do improve performance in more ways than just muscle mass and strength. Tom Brady didn't get in shape and lose his ability to throw as he aged. The clear general trend is that resistance training is a benefit to all professional athletes.

If tour pros aren't in shape now, they will be in the future because all evidence points to it improving performance. Of course there are outliers that are so talented, like John Daly, that are more than competitive without putting any effort into it and a few edge cases where a dude lost his gut and couldn't revamp his golf swing but that is a different issue. I think every pro knows that resistance training will offer them an edge. Whether they choose to take it is another question.

I was breaking down 2 different throw styles.
Not necessarily focusing on mobility.
But you can get around a lot of mobility issues with brute strength also.

I can tell you that were on the same page, just explaining it differently.
But its key to remember that not everyone has the same mobility, and its a mix of leverage and muscle depending on your body works.

Resistance training is basically high reps low weight.
muscle training is low reps high weight.

If you're going to train for disc golf, you want endurance and resistance style training to help let your muscles work better and stronger. Not just brute powerlifting.

That was a big problem tiger had for a while, he hit the gym pretty hard and lost a lot of his mobility. still performed at a pretty high level, but he struggled for a bit there.

 

[Sheep]

I am as lanky as they come, for better or worse. When i was 18 i was 6'6" and 130 pounds lol. Those long levers are brilliant for some things, but push ups not so much. If i went to the gym for a while i could do some, obviously, but right now my exercise regime is non existent.

It's interesting actually - i think those long levers give me decent disc speed more easily than the average person, but i find spin a little harder, because my fingers are so very long and spindly. Grip strength is an issue.

I find distance drivers massively easier to grip than fairways, particularly shallow fairways[COLOR=var(--text)]. I'm just a weird shape lol.[/COLOR]

I had a guy here I was teaching that was 6'10 and had these stupid long arms and legs. Had almost 0 coordination but because he had SO much leverage with his arms alone 300 feet with the most atrocious form wasn't an issue. He just wasn't a graceful person. Then we all found out part of that might have been his drinking problem which he was trying to hide from our group.
He was never trying to muscle the disc, he just was able to impart the leverage into it that just gave him crazy speed despite such bad form.

 

[Kennets]

I had a guy here I was teaching that was 6'10 and had these stupid long arms and legs. Had almost 0 coordination but because he had SO much leverage with his arms alone 300 feet with the most atrocious form wasn't an issue. He just wasn't a graceful person. Then we all found out part of that might have been his drinking problem which he was trying to hide from our group.
He was never trying to muscle the disc, he just was able to impart the leverage into it that just gave him crazy speed despite such bad form.

If it weren't for that drinking, that could've been me.. I actually feel attacked

I'm 6.2 , build like a twig and got these long ass arms. And if you wanna have a look at my coordination, just look at my form thread, lol..

Does long levers really gives THAT much of an advantage? (I already know the answer to be fair).


Regarding the push-ups (training in general) and people being completely outta shape.. you need to get going or you'll in up regretting it big time.

I've done hard manual work for 15 years, without any regards to my health or muscle groups that I didn't use on the daily. Aaaand, my back, neck and shoulders are done in the age of 36.

Stretch, body weight exercises, yoga, whatever. Do something lol

 

[419HondaGuy]

I was breaking down 2 different throw styles.
Not necessarily focusing on mobility.
But you can get around a lot of mobility issues with brute strength also.

I can tell you that were on the same page, just explaining it differently.
But its key to remember that not everyone has the same mobility, and its a mix of leverage and muscle depending on your body works.

Resistance training is basically high reps low weight.
muscle training is low reps high weight.

If you're going to train for disc golf, you want endurance and resistance style training to help let your muscles work better and stronger. Not just brute powerlifting.

That was a big problem tiger had for a while, he hit the gym pretty hard and lost a lot of his mobility. still performed at a pretty high level, but he struggled for a bit there.

Did you mean strength training & Hypertrophy Training when you're talking resistance training and muscle training?
B/C Resistance Training covers a wide scope of different training principles, which include hypotrophy, strength, power/explosion, endurance, and stabilization. If hypertrophy is what you meant for muscle training, it wouldn't be low rep training, like below 4-5 reps typically. Hypertrophy training, depending on the muscle group, is going to be around 6-12 reps.

Most people are not going to do a true powerlifting program since they are not competing at PL competitions, but training compound movements with heavy weight and low reps like 3-6 reps should be included for disc golf training. Doing heavy strength training with compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, or presses for example worked in speed work like sprints, box jumps, or even distance throwing will help build fast twitch muscle fibers which is what we want for power and explosion.

Most people are not going to start obtaining Mr. Olympia level of muscle mass from doing a well-designed lifting program or lose their mobility or flexibility. Only if their training along with diet and supplementation is geared towards will an athlete start growing and changing their muscular structure.

 

[HyzerRoc]

Most people are not going to do a true powerlifting program since they are not competing at PL competitions, but training compound movements with heavy weight and low reps like 3-6 reps should be included for disc golf training. Doing heavy strength training with compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, or presses for example worked in speed work like sprints, box jumps, or even distance throwing will help build fast twitch muscle fibers which is what we want for power and explosion.

Does it matter how many shots I wanna do in the day when picking out the number of reps to do? For example a long course with 2 tournament rounds in a day is about 50 full power shots on the day. Would I get tired out when I built up muscle with low reps?

 

[419HondaGuy]

Does it matter how many shots I wanna do in the day when picking out the number of reps to do? For example a long course with 2 tournament rounds in a day is about 50 full power shots on the day. Would I get tired out when I built up muscle with low reps?

That is going to depend on if you have a full comprehensive training program that covers all the scopes of training for your goals/ sport. I wouldn't advise someone or myself to train with high intensity if you have a tournament that week like your example, training would be different especially once your with 3 days of the event. Not sure if I answered your question ?
Just like in our swing movements we want to be in dynamic balance and posture and the rest works it self out- our training should be balanced and along with our diet, and if we are consistent = + results and performance

 

[HyzerRoc]

That is going to depend on if you have a full comprehensive training program that covers all the scopes of training for your goals/ sport. I wouldn't advise someone or myself to train with high intensity if you have a tournament that week like your example, training would be different especially once your with 3 days of the event. Not sure if I answered your question ?

Yeah I think you answered it as: dont just do high intensity stuff, do other training as well.
Thanks

 

[Kjimsern]

Yeeeep that's him.

He wanted to constantly argue on the discord about form stuff.

He's a nice dude. but...

*sigh*
I'm so sick of the internet now.

The only person I know who legit throws 500 foot standstills is Graham Russell. Even your top level elite pro's cannot throw 500 foot standstills.

I'm just gonna say, Nice guy. Meat head, but nice guy.

Sounds like a challenge, i did 460 last year with a max weight destroyer. I think i can pull that off after this off season

 

[RowingBoats]

Sounds like a challenge, i did 460 last year with a max weight destroyer. I think i can pull that off after this off season

Lol, good luck! I don't know if I can do it. I can get right at about 450' consistently but I cannot (in an honest way, flat ground, no wind exploits) exceed this.

I haven't really dabbled with throwing the crazier distance line techniques, but if I can ever toss a Wave or Photon 500' on a normal useful line from a standstill Im gonna be stoked.

 

[Brychanus]

I'm 5'10" with a 6'2" wingspan. Was always pissed at how much more weight my buddies with shorter arms could move.

And I am not quite pissed at your beautiful levers when throwing, but I do get grouchy sometimes.

 

[Sheep]

Sounds like a challenge, i did 460 last year with a max weight destroyer. I think i can pull that off after this off season

subtrack 200 for internet distance.
And that sounds about correct distance. =)

 

[HyzerRoc]

Sounds like a challenge, i did 460 last year with a max weight destroyer. I think i can pull that off after this off season

We are gonna need some footage of that to figure out how to throw standstill bombs

 

[Brychanus]

subtrack 200 for internet distance.
And that sounds about correct distance. =)

Here he is a year ago. SW has coached him and I've chimed in here and there. I have not seen his standstill recently. If he is a 75mph/600' thrower with ~20% X-step efficiency, I would not be surprised if he has a ~450' standstill if enough of the mechanics are present.

We are gonna need some footage of that to figure out how to throw standstill bombs

Will leave it up to him if he wants to share. There are some standstill bombers here:


And here:

Kneeling standstill if you want to take a load off. Notice that Kuoksa is still moving his lower body the same way as his complete standstill but as though he is amputated at the knees:


One way to work on it for a while if you want a standstill:

 

[Sheep]

Here he is a year ago. SW has coached him and I've chimed in here and there. I have not seen his standstill recently. If he is a 75mph/600' thrower with ~20% X-step efficiency, I would not be surprised if he has a ~450' standstill if enough of the mechanics are present.




Will leave it up to him if he wants to share. There are some standstill bombers here:


And here:

Kneeling standstill if you want to take a load off. Notice that Kuoksa is still moving his lower body the same way as his complete standstill but as though he is amputated at the knees:


One way to work on it for a while if you want a standstill:

I'ma randomly throw this in there.

But I'm in the "lets make it no run ups after the tee pad boat" and the conversation argument after that has always been "but then the pro's cant throw far enough."

Which.. who cares at that point.

But wouldn't the dynamic of suddenly having to rely on good proper mechanics from a standstill really bring a different level to disc golf?

I mean, half the field cannot even putt outside of 33 feet without trying to run and fly at the basket somehow.

 

[Kjimsern]

subtrack 200 for internet distance.
And that sounds about correct distance. =)

This is a while back ago and ive worked extremely hard during the winter and i have a form that is alot more efficent now.

I did 459 feet with collapsed pocket and some issues that i fixed with reverse stride and duble dragons from seabas22 and some changes from aceitdiscgolf aswell ( credit to both)

459 feet standstill with old bad form



This is my form right now with 360, my ligaments and tendons/body is adapting to the changes ive made this winter and i can see my power pocket and brace is starting to go places i hoped i would reach.

 

[Nick Carroll]

I'ma randomly throw this in there.

But I'm in the "lets make it no run ups after the tee pad boat" and the conversation argument after that has always been "but then the pro's cant throw far enough."

Which.. who cares at that point.

But wouldn't the dynamic of suddenly having to rely on good proper mechanics from a standstill really bring a different level to disc golf?

I mean, half the field cannot even putt outside of 33 feet without trying to run and fly at the basket somehow.

I'ma get on the random train here (because its fun) but I would like to see more standstills on the pro tour. After watching every ounce of "Throw Down The Mudslide" last weekend it kills me how many went with a small run up and were either a) off balance before they planted, and/or b) slip-n-slid when they did.
On top of that, it was heart-wrenching watching aggressive putts either hit the basket and roll hard, or just sail past it. The speed control on some of those putts was MIA. I can't even count the number of times it would have been better for them to just lay up to avoid the roll-aways.

 

[koiyote]

RE: pushups (or lack thereof)
Wouldn't building the pushing motion be counter to the muscles used for the throw? Chest and biceps would be used in adduction motions whereas triceps and shoulders would be used in abduction moves.

So doesn't it make sense that these bombers struggle with pushups? And they'd probably be proportionately stronger at exercises utilizing shoulders?

 

[Nick Carroll]

RE: pushups (or lack thereof)
Wouldn't building the pushing motion be counter to the muscles used for the throw? Chest and biceps would be used in adduction motions whereas triceps and shoulders would be used in abduction moves.

So doesn't it make sense that these bombers struggle with pushups? And they'd probably be proportionately stronger at exercises utilizing shoulders?

I think that's a great point, and might point out a problem that they probably need to do those exercises to counter what may be a strength imbalance, which could have negative consequences for them.