54 or course par?

[the_pwnerator]

I can see why all par 3 is popular okay, its easy! But when someone gives me a +/- score for a course they played its not accurate if they use this type of scoring. If everyone said the total number of strokes they had OR just kept track of their score like they are suppose to they could give me a accurate score.

I just don't see what the problem with keeping track of your score like you are suppose to is.......I could only imagine if people that play ball golf played every course as all par 3.

This is the way I see it too.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

I think we're all on the same basic page, but it's bred into the system that as a player we must argue about 'par'. It's one of those things basic to the fabric of Disc Golf existence. If we came to a conclusion as a community, that fabric would slowly peel apart, peeling like string cheese across multiple silmutaneous dimensions, ultimately resulting in a rift through space time that would irradiate all perceptions of par as we know it.

My String Cheese Theory.

 

[DavidSauls]

That'd be all-par-4 for ball golf. For a few disc golf courses, as well.

As I said way back, it really is a misuse of the word "par", by any definition.

In the meantime, regardless of my laziness in scorekeeping or your principled opposition, all-par-3 is ingrained in the sport, especially among tournament players.

 

[snappyfingers]

Here's what I think, and I feel that it is pretty simple:

Don't worry about "par" or whatever. Try to finish the course in as few strokes as possible.

Simple right?

 

[ChampionKirby]

For me, it depends upon the course. Some courses like (Duncanville, TX) for example has TRUE par 4's. par 4's where you have to lay up into another fairway in order to get a 3.

 

[_MTL_]

Ball golf has been doing this for several years now on a few championship courses with a 280-300 yard par 3 that deliver 0-5 birdies in the whole tournament and lots of bogeys. You don't want a bunch of these type of holes but 1 or 2 in a round have their place in both games.

If you want to use the ball golf comparison, then let's use it.

There is a HUGE difference between these hard par 3's in ball golf and disc golf; The field is still hitting the green half the time!

I have NEVER seen a pro ball golfer in 24 years of playing and being a huge ball golf fan have to hit a driver a hard as they can and still not be able to reach hole. I've also NEVER seen a pro golfer literally lay up on the tee of a par 3.

Sure, they have hit 3 woods and such and sure, they have intentionally hit to left sides of greens 50 - 75 feet from the pin, but they are still getting there.

Let me repeat this phrase.

NO ONE from the A pool got within 50 feet of a par 3. Like the PGA Tour example, these aren't your casual golfers. These are the best of the best! They are throwing their drivers as hard as they could and NO ONE got a 50 footer.

 

[BIGHAFNER]

Here, in Memphis, every course is played as 54 par. Now there are some that have a course par, but the majority have none because of the common belief of a 54 par. So I play everything as 54 par. But no matter how you look at it, a 54 is a 54 like someone has already said.

 

[jeverett]

To jeverett - Hole 1 was designed as a 2-shot par 3 and never was designed as a par 4 for blue. Your use of CRP analysis fails for a hole like this. The actual scoring distribution and average bear this out on this hole and Granite hole 5. Granite 5 was not one of my favorite blue holes for gold level but still worked as a tough par 3. Few got within 100 ft due to the fairway shape. Or if they did, it may have required a technical shot over or around a wall of trees. Hole 9 is a bomber hole where gold level players could get closer to the pin by taking a more direct angle over the marsh in addition to their average distance being longer than blue level.

Hi Cgkdisc,

We should probably take up this discussion somewhere other than this thread.. but here goes..

I admit that having never seen any of these holes it's hard to understand their exact layouts, but by "two-shot par 3", are you meaning drive, jump-putt, putt? Because a two-(drive) par 3 is a contradiction of terms. By definition, two intended drives = par 4. It still sounds like a par 4.. and maybe a poorly-designed one at the Gold-level. The scoring distribution is still good for that one, though.

For hole 5, did those few players who got within 100ft. make it there due to a perfect 400ft. drive, or did they make it there with a much longer drive? If it's the former, that sounds like a solid case for a par 3. If it's the latter, once again that's a par 4, where top-level players are choosing to try for a riskier max-distance drive for a chance at a long eagle. Again, though, the scoring spread is reasonable.

For hole 9, it still sounds like Gold-level players aren't getting close enough to the pin even by taking the more direct angle. Without knowing anything about the terrain for the green, how about shortening the hole by ~20ft.?

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Hi Cgkdisc,

We should probably take up this discussion somewhere other than this thread.. but here goes..

There's a place for that: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1378241#post1378241

 

[Spookyspence]

Here's what I think, and I feel that it is pretty simple:

Don't worry about "par" or whatever. Try to finish the course in as few strokes as possible.

Simple right?

That is true, but in that case why don't we just do away with the entire +/- scoring system and just say we shot 50 or 60 etc since no one seems to be able to do simple math or use a piece of paper.

 

[Deaf Leopard]

If someone asks what par is, just tell them the rec par. These numbers are there to make people feel better about their 4's and 5's.

If a course is difficult it is just harder to score well on. You have to make more birdies on the easy holes to par.

why don't we just do away with the entire +/- scoring system and just say we shot 50 or 60 etc since no one seems to be able to do simple math or use a piece of paper.

Done:thmbup:

 

[bmxpunk01]

Scoring short-hand - best definition ever.

Using this short-hand scoring system:
Lums Pond (Par 54) - player says they shot +3 = round of 57
Iron Hill (golds, par 72) - same player says they shot +22 = round of 76

Both rounds equal slightly over "par" for the course, and total score still comes correctly.

They're not playing "every hole as a par 3" - they're just totaling up their score this way as an easy way to calculate the total number of strokes easily. If they shot a 3 on hole 17 @ IH, I'm pretty sure they would be way stoked

 

[Cgkdisc]

The problem with the CRP analysis used by jeverett and MTL is that statistically par in disc golf is the average number of throws to the green for gold level players plus 1.4 not 2 as popularly thrown around. Putts plus shots around the green in DG is 0.6 shots easier than in BG.

Discussion moved to thread in the Courses section.

 

[denny ritner]

The problem with the CRP analysis used by jeverett and MTL is that statistically par in disc golf is the average number of throws to the green for gold level players plus 1.4 not 2 as popularly thrown around. Putts plus shots around the green in DG is 0.6 shots easier than in BG.

Discussion moved to thread in the Courses section.

that depends upon how you define "green".

 

[Cgkdisc]

Nope. See other discussion.

 

[_MTL_]

The problem with the CRP analysis used by jeverett and MTL is that statistically par in disc golf is the average number of throws to the green for gold level players plus 1.4 not 2 as popularly thrown around. Putts plus shots around the green in DG is 0.6 shots easier than in BG.

Discussion moved to thread in the Courses section.

I've never stated that par is throws to the green plus 2 in this discussion.

I'm just simply stating that these three holes weren't even producing putts. How can you say it's average number of throws to the green plus 1.4 but no one is getting putts for 2, yet it's a par 3?

 

[aajpity]

Id say just keep track of what you got then enter it on this website!!

 

[Cgkdisc]

MTL - I'm just simply stating that these three holes weren't even producing putts. How can you say it's average number of throws to the green plus 1.4 but no one is getting putts for 2, yet it's a par 3?

You're trapped in the definition of par as requiring the ability to score a "reasonable" percentage of birdies. But that isn't the definition. Being able to birdie a hole was never in the ball golf definition of par nor is it in the disc golf definition. It's even more likely in DG there will be holes where "par" has the highest percentage of scores with most of the remaining scores being higher than "par" as in the three examples you provided from Highbridge.

 

[scarpfish]

I can see why all par 3 is popular okay, its easy! But when someone gives me a +/- score for a course they played its not accurate if they use this type of scoring.

I can assure you that 90+% of the time someone gives you a +/- score, its based on an all par 3 formula. They added it that way, for their dissemination, not yours. If its that big on an issue, ask them what their +/- score is in actual strokes.

If everyone said the total number of strokes they had OR just kept track of their score like they are suppose to they could give me a accurate score.

There is no such thing as "kept track of their score like they are suppose to" during a casual round. There is in fact, no mandate to keep score at all. I've never kept score of my rounds for anybody else's benefit. If they don't like the way that I do it, tough cookies.

I just don't see what the problem with keeping track of your score like you are suppose to is..

Because unless its a tournament, where we're mandated by rule to keep score, its too time consuming for the purpose. When I play solo, I like to keep a brisk pace. I don't have time to write down a score every hole, when I can keep track of an entire round in my head by treating 3's as zeroes and non-3's accordingly. Even when I'm having a "league" round with some local guys I play often with, we use the +/- method, as we've never carried a scorecard with us, and only recently have one of us starting using a mobile scorecard app, which I think was only started out of love of gadgetry as opposed to need.

I could only imagine if people that play ball golf played every course as all par 3.

I doubt that it would be practical in ball golf because most casual ball golfers don't regularly par, or even get single bogeys with anywhere near the frequency that recreational disc golfers do. A standard Par 70-73 ball golf course also offers three different pars on their holes, with maybe just over half of them being Par-4s, whereas the overwhelming majority of disc golf holes really are true Par-3's.

 

[Spookyspence]

I can assure you that 90+% of the time someone gives you a +/- score, its based on an all par 3 formula. They added it that way, for their dissemination, not yours. If its that big on an issue, ask them what their +/- score is in actual strokes.


There is no such thing as "kept track of their score like they are suppose to" during a casual round. There is in fact, no mandate to keep score at all. I've never kept score of my rounds for anybody else's benefit. If they don't like the way that I do it, tough cookies.



Because unless its a tournament, where we're mandated by rule to keep score, its too time consuming for the purpose. When I play solo, I like to keep a brisk pace. I don't have time to write down a score every hole, when I can keep track of an entire round in my head by treating 3's as zeroes and non-3's accordingly. Even when I'm having a "league" round with some local guys I play often with, we use the +/- method, as we've never carried a scorecard with us, and only recently have one of us starting using a mobile scorecard app, which I think was only started out of love of gadgetry as opposed to need.


I doubt that it would be practical in ball golf because most casual ball golfers don't regularly par, or even get single bogeys with anywhere near the frequency that recreational disc golfers do. A standard Par 70-73 ball golf course also offers three different pars on their holes, with maybe just over half of them being Par-4s, whereas the overwhelming majority of disc golf holes really are true Par-3's.

I hear you, and I understand........but its just not that clear cut here. But I have excepted its something I will have to put up with lol.