Apply the "Ultimate" Stall Count?

[Rastnav]

I think that what Mike was quoting and what the rule means is that a Tournament Official can second a player's call, EVEN IF no one else on the card seconded a player's call -- and then the penalty is assessed.



Your statement about "a Tournament Official's call (implying the tourney official made the initial call) must be seconded to assess the penalty", I don't think has been adjudicated nor has it been addressed at all in the rule book. If so, please direct me to that place. But this specific rule was only speaking to a Tournament Official seconding a player's call.

I was just misresding the rule. Tourney officials don't need to be seconded. 801.02F makes this explicit.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Make one at 21cm diameter and 175g as a putter with countdown timing lights:TOSY Ultimate flying disc

For Professional Ultimate 10" or Ultimate 7" mode, once you pick up or catch the Disc, the light will blink 9 (or 6) times to let you know it is counting each second, and flash at the last second to turn off at the 10" (or 7") mark to signal a turnover if the disc has not left the player's hand. If the Disc is on the ground and not in your hand, the IMU sensor in our Disc can tell and will not start the count.

The TOSY Flying Disc, at 175 grams, is weighted perfectly for Ultimate. It is well balanced, and when thrown properly, will fly straight. It has enough weight to maintain momentum and achieve long-distance throws, without being so heavy that it dips and loses altitude. We are in the process of getting official approval from USA Ultimate. Since the Disc has LEDs, the process is a bit more complicated and is taking longer than usual but we are confident it will be approved soon.

 

[Rastnav]

Highly applicable to this thread. And damn funny too.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4hzu1ReJFMc&t=3565

(It's Calvin applying a clock to Nikko's putt in a skins match at 59:25 in)

 

[Dingus]

There is nothing that gives you permission to distract another player just because they have committed a violation.

What a great way to troll someone. Ask them a question and just as they start to reply throw a disc at them and call them for a courtesy violation. It doesn't matter that your "throw" was directly at their face or that you weren't at your lie or that it had nothing to do with the round you were playing. You were "throwing", so therefore they cannot talk. NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[araytx]

Uh … I don't think it's as clear cut as you think.

The problem is, how do you determine--and, during competition, who gets to determine when the playing area is "clear"? If 20 sec into the 30 sec clock a chipmunk saunters across the fairway, does the clock reset because the playing area is no longer "clear"? What if it's a chihuahua? a golden retriever? a deer? a moose? a grizzly bear? a tumbleweed? a dust devil? a piece of paper? a player on a different card? What about a spotter parked in the middle of the fairway or on the edge? or in OB? What about a camera crew? or spectators? a streaker? LARPers? What if the spotter [camera crew/spectators/LARPers] moves out of the line of thrower's sight but leaves his/their stool and beverage cooler in place? What if they set up in an area where they would have to move to avoid interfering with the flight of a thrown disc? What if they're spotting/filming/spectating on a hole that's adjacent to the one the thrower's on? The point being, deleting "and free of distractions" from the rule does nothing to address the underlying issue; it merely shifts the locus from "distractions" to "clear" ... and you know darn well that players are going to argue it. So, at best, removing "and free from distractions" from condition 4 merely shuffles the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I would also argue that moving "after" from the main clause to the first three conditons and adding "during which" to the fourth condition makes things worse, not better. The root issue in the current rule, and which the proposed revision does not address, is if--and if "yes," under what conditions--the 30 second clock ever resets. Given that the primary definition of "during" is "throughout the course or duration of"--which is the way "during" is used elsewhere in the Rules and CM--in the absence of a clear restriction to the contrary, the presumption must be that the thrower is entitled to a full 30 second interval in which the playing areas is clear.

And, no, 3.02 does not solve the problem because a throw made within a 30 second interval during which the playing area is "clear" cannot, by rule, constitute an "undue delay."

Phil -- are you just trolling or are you serious? I mean about defining "clear"? You Pulling a Bill Clinton on us or something?

They gave the specific example of an animal or a human (pedestrian) in the throwing area as the reason the clock count would reset. Nothing else. They are definitively saying you are not to throw if it violates the Code of Safety. So to the questions you posited it is clear the way I read it. Chipmunk, chihuahua, golden retriever, deer, moose, grizzly bear, another player, etc. goes on the area you're throwing at -- YES that's when the clock resets. If it's a tumbleweed, a dust devil, a piece of paper, leaves, junk/crap, anyone's "stool", "tool," or other gear left, etc., -- NO, the clock doesn't reset as the rule is written. And typically an assigned spotter (on his/her assignment), or a camera crewman (in his/her assigned location) isn't moving once you've had reasonable amount of time to arrive at your lie, so that's a non-factor as well.

The issue is really will players call it. I still think the same will happen among players. But the rule change WILL give TD's and their team better, easier authority to address the problem. We'll see if they will or not once the new year starts.

 

[elmexdela]

what about implementing a chess style timing

if someone excessively takes too long to shoot they eventually are forced to forfeit

no moar of this "one person taking too long" and "no one else calling them" on it

 

[Smigles]

Highly applicable to this thread. And damn funny too.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4hzu1ReJFMc&t=3565

(It's Calvin applying a clock to Nikko's putt in a skins match at 59:25 in)

This should be the norm once a player has been called his first time offense. Seriously.