[Other] Bag building theory

[Alexplz]

I figure this sort of fits better here than in the actual bag feedback subforum because it's more focused on the discs themselves and the dynamic between the slots in your bag.

When putting your bag together, is it better to build from the ground up, or top down?

Here's what I mean - on one hand, you can go from the ground up by grabbing a stack of your favorite discs. Here's an example:

S Wizard, DX Roc, X Buzzz, GStar TeeBird, C-FD, Lucid Escape

These constitute a bag, or at least the start of one. There is some overlap, and you are missing some archetypes, but if you pick and choose what else you want to add you'll be fine... until it comes time to decide what midrange mold is best suited to hit that gap...

Alternatively, you could build from the top down, filling in a structure like the sticky in the bag forum, or one like this:

putters:
OS / S / US

mids:
OS / S / US

fairways:
OS / S / US

distance:
OS / S / US

This way, you are sticking to a plan and might end up choosing a roc cycle over bagging that additional buzzz. In fact, you might realize that some of your favorite discs don't fit the bill when filling in the above slots, or that bagging your favorite discs would cause overlap or mold overload. So in theory, you have your bases covered, but you might not "click" with some of your selections like you otherwise would. :\

These are just exaggerated examples, but my point remains - sometimes I find that my fondness for a mold or specific disc gets in the way of putting together a truly harmonious bag, but I wonder if it's worth it anyway. What do you guys think?

 

[Moose33]

I start with the Discs that I feel make my game better and fit it well.

I have had a Firebird for 6 years and it makes me happy and I can carve so many lines with it, Harps also 6 years its the best approach on the market, the Stag has been in my bag for 4 years and I like the lines and versatility it offers. Then a Stego cuz awesome.Then it's about finding what I'm feeling good about at the time.

I like a good stable/OS mid, Bards today but I'll use a Yao or Roc if I'm feeling it.

OS Distance Driver, Ape, Phase, Giant etc.

Stable understable bomber King, Shryke etc.

Find a putter I like and that's a bag.

If a disc makes you play or feel better carry it, if not don't.

 

[Alexplz]

I start with the Discs that I feel make my game better and fit it well.

I have had a Firebird for 6 years and it makes me happy and I can carve so many lines with it, Harps also 6 years its the best approach on the market, the Stag has been in my bag for 4 years and I like the lines and versatility it offers. Then a Stego cuz awesome.Then it's about finding what I'm feeling good about at the time.

I like a good stable/OS mid, Bards today but I'll use a Yao or Roc if I'm feeling it.

OS Distance Driver, Ape, Phase, Giant etc.

Stable understable bomber King, Shryke etc.

Find a putter I like and that's a bag.

If a disc makes you play or feel better carry it, if not don't.

Yours is a perfect example of ground-up bag building - it's like improv jazz vs a classical composition. Is one better than the other?

 

[tylerc]

I can only give you my theory which I believe is best. Start with 2 discs: a putting putter and a comfortable disc to throw off the tee. Think about what shots you cannot achieve with those discs and slowly fill those. I would start with a pa1 for putting and throwing. Next I would need more distance so a prophecy (roc similar), next I would need an understable midrange and forehand driver. Each disc is in my bag to perform 1 task the others cannot.

I do end up with strange holes in my bag though: no super overstable putter, midrange, or fairway driver, no super flippy midrange, no backhand fairway drivers, no understable control drivers, and no slightly understable distance drivers. When I play I typically use a stable putter, stable fairway driver, and overstable distance driver but that changes per the course. Granted I do have 21 discs in my bag but 5 are to break in, and the rest are situational.. No disc is a goto.

Free to look at how my bag has developed overtime.

 

[SD86]

It will depend on several factors, including the course(s) you're playing on, your relative abilities, and what you like.

For me, mids are 'caught up' between longer approach putters and fairway drivers. So I only have a couple of those, and one of those, the Pink Panther, is used for utility purposes as much as normal mid purposes. Many people use a full range of mids, from OS to US, so YMMV on that.

Whether you cycle or use different molds, put into your bag what you might need. If your course has a lot of turnover shots, you might need some understable discs. If it's mostly open shots inviting hyzers from fast drivers, add your favorites.

My bag is built somewhat for my home course, but I can take it just about anywhere and have what I need for any shot that might come up. My home course is good in that it has open and technical/wooded holes requiring a variety of shots. So I generally have stable-to understable discs at intervals of speed, and a few very OS discs like the Hornet and Banshee and Destroyer (OS for me) when conditions and a particular shot needs them.

And one way to find out which discs you need... leave one at home on a given day. If you find yourself saying "Darn, I wish I had that Sphinx for this shot.", then that disc goes back in. If you take a disc out and never need it, maybe there's a space for a more needed disc. To me, part of the fun of DG has been trying discs and building my ideal-for-me bag.

 

[PMantle]

I pretty much do this:

putters:
OS / S / US

mids:
OS / S / US

fairways:
OS / S / US

distance:
OS / S / US

But with two categories of FDs and two of mids, with some putters used as short mids.

 

[Streets]

I posted this elsewhere but my core is usually:

Stable/OS driver - speed 6-9, not utility beef...think Teebird
Stable/US driver - again speed 6-9, not super flippy...think Leopard
Stable/neutral mid - something that literally works on every line (Comet right now)
Stable/neutral putter - same as mid but a putter (Aviar, Magnet, Wizard etc.)

I try and rely on shot shaping more than having a specific disc for every shot and when that runs out, I will add something that can get the job done (Zone, RR, FB etc.)

 

[McCready]

I started playing in '15, came into this forum and read hundreds of threads where people raved about all different molds, and ended up buying hundreds of discs within the first year. Then over the course of playing a few times a week since then, I figured out what worked for me. So for the past year or so, my bag has remained pretty constant with what is in my sig.

I definitely have discs arranged in my mind as you laid out - putter, mid, fairway, distance with S/US/OS molds of each. And I do have overlap, and I definitely have discs that get thrown 10+ times per round and others maybe zero or one time. But they are all discs I trust to give me a consistent flight every time I need them. Therefore consistency & familiarity is my go-to philosophy for building a bag.

The fun and/or perplexing part of this, depending on who you are: the manufacturers will keep releasing new molds, and old molds with new stamps/colors/plastics, and new runs of the same plastics that have more or less dome or higher or lower PLH, and you keep reading these forums and you watch tournaments on YouTube and you're like "I want that disc" and pretty soon you have secret credit cards and you're stashing discs in the attic and running to get to the mailbox before your wife because she threatened to leave if you bought even one more disc.

Then there's the paradox of selling your used discs. I can think of several molds I gave up on two years ago that I bagged again on a whim and found to be useful.

I would find all of this to be a bit nuts, except even the top pros have constantly evolving bags. It seems to be a "normal" aspect of the sport, and for me it's fun. Nothwithstanding the ridiculous sums of money spent.

 

[konza_kid]

To answer your specific question i would go ground up, just so get to know your discs, and gives you a good indication of what shot you are missing. Start small and add as needed.

But this post seems to scream FOMO, I know because I have been there. First thing, there is no perfect bag setup. There just isn't, or everyone would have it and there wouldn't be any new discs coming out. There IS a setup that you can find overtime, that matches well with your game and the type of shots that you like to throw. That should be your goal.

The second thing that I want to put out there is this, overlap is inevitable, if you are RHBH most of your discs are going to go forward then fade left. That is just how that goes, it seems counterproductive to assign strict roles on your discs. While it is good to know, say if you have a 300' hyzer what you are most comfortable throwing, but most discs in your bag can throw that shot. What i'm really getting at is, it's the archer not the arrow.

Overall, have fun and use what works for you. Try new stuff, if it works great! If not, the worst case scenario is you still got out for a round!

 

[Beener]

I have been playing for 5+ years. My bag has evolved over time from a ground-up philosophy shaped by the courses that I play routinely and tempered by my (slowly) increasing skillset.

Started with a neutral Driver, Midrange and Putter: Escape, Warship and Warden. Found myself off the fairway plenty so added a Suspect for FH, flick rollers and other get out of trouble shots. Discovered that many courses are designed by RHBH players so added some turnover discs for my LHBH predominate game: Hatchet and Tursas. Developed a FH game: Longbowman. Developed more power and played in the wind more: Pine and Getaway. Developed a roller and extreme turnover game: Maul.

Now, looking at my bag from a top-down philosophy, I have the OS / S / US slots covered for Putters, Midranges and Fairway Drivers with a few situational discs mixed in. Works for me!

 

[slowplastic]

Some overlap is fine I think. And let's be honest, on an open 250' shot you can throw any disc in your bag and get there. It's about what you're comfortable with.

Any time you step up for a shot, no matter the situation, you should have a disc in your hand that you think is your favourite disc for that line. If not, then find your new favourite. There are so many molds out there. Sure you can find overlap between an FD and a Teebird in 80% of situations, but if you need one to hold right with a low ceiling, or one to sweep left with some wind, then the separate discs are needed. So it's not about how often they overlap, but how often there is a time where one is obviously the best choice and gives you the confidence with that shot rather than thinking "I really need some extra angle on this one this time...".

There are some molds that I absolutely love that I don't bag, but it's because they would overlap with my current discs that already execute those shots or slightly different ones just as well. You can't bag every disc you love, but you also shouldn't avoid bagging a disc you love because your Roc can handle most mid shots...if you wish you had a Buzzz for some low ceiling tunnels too then put it in the bag. When pro's can throw mids 400' easily then a low ceiling Roc shot at 300' is a no brainer. For a normal person the Buzzz is easier.

 

[etdefender19]

I (try and) do the OS/S/US for each perceived slot in my bag (putters, mids, control, FW/hybrid, distance) and throw in a couple utility discs for thumbers, rollers, and escape shots

I also have OCD and ADD (and disposable income to buy plastic) so I'm constantly changing nearly everything to try and make my lineup "perfect" - so I have a bag with 23 discs and 20 molds (or whatever it is), many of which are relatively new. I've compounded my problem by recently switching from being a primarily forehand player to now an almost exclusively backhand player. This transition is nearly complete, but I still have a couple discs in the bag exclusively for when I need a forehand shot.

It occurs to me that I'm likely not the example you want to follow.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

Yours is a perfect example of ground-up bag building - it's like improv jazz vs a classical composition. Is one better than the other?

sometimes it's the discs you don't carry that make your bag

 

[pjhayes7]

I will answer the question this way:
If I were forced to abandon all my favorites and build a completely new bag with discs I have never or only rarely thrown, here is how I would go about it. (Stuff in parentheses are just what I prefer)

Find a putting putter (beaded, stable but not overstable)
Ideally use the same mold putter as above and use it for a backhand throwing putter, but it doesn't have to be the same mold
Very overstable putter/slow mid (shallow and beadless. Most importantly is comfortable to forehand)
Stable workhorse mid (little dome, beaded, ideally available in both premium and baseline)
Stable workhorse fairway (flattish and Champion-like plastic)
Neutral to understable off the shelf fairway (in Star-like plastic so it will lose stability faster than it would in Champion-like)
Very overstable control driver (flattish and Champion-like plastic, must be comfortable both forehand and backhand)
Stable workhorse control driver (Star-like plastic, same reason as before, must be comfortable both forehand and backhand)
Hyzerflip max distance driver (not super understable, but easy to get a nice s-curve out of)
Very stable but not overstable max distance driver (flattish, must be comfortable both forehand and backhand)

Until you get a cycle going, get an understable throwing putter, mid, and fairway

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

My bag tends to lean more towards bottom up. I switch things around here and there, but the core of classic aviars, DX rocs, Eagles, and a Firebird stays the same pretty much all the time now. I experiment with distance drivers, and niche discs, some stick around a while and some rotate.

I personally feel that playing with discs you like and are comfortable with even if there is overlap or a gap in your bag, will yield better scores for me anyway. I like working angles on my discs, and throw every disc in every manner depending on my mood, so I don't notice when I have a gap in my bag as much as my friends that throw flat backhand almost every shot. I think having a strong forehand and decent overhand game helps a lot in that regard though.

I always suggest to friends that get frustrated with their bags to downsize, pick your favorite 2 mids, favorite 2-3 putters, and a neutral fairway they really like and play a couple rounds. Then if they feel there is something missing, just add one disc for that spot and test it a couple rounds. Familiarity with a core selection usually helps their confidence, and in turn their scores.

 

[Buiscutboy]

My method is more of a pick a disc I like in each category. Then I think about how it cycles and if it would need a complement. Like, if a Comet is my main mid, I'll probably want something beefier now and then so I add a Warrior. But if I'm using Ghosts, I don't really need anything beefier than a fresh one. Then I go from there. Maybe fill some other gaps like a beefy putter.

 

[jjmiller]

Some overlap is fine I think. And let's be honest, on an open 250' shot you can throw any disc in your bag and get there. It's about what you're comfortable with.

Any time you step up for a shot, no matter the situation, you should have a disc in your hand that you think is your favourite disc for that line. If not, then find your new favourite. There are so many molds out there. Sure you can find overlap between an FD and a Teebird in 80% of situations, but if you need one to hold right with a low ceiling, or one to sweep left with some wind, then the separate discs are needed. So it's not about how often they overlap, but how often there is a time where one is obviously the best choice and gives you the confidence with that shot rather than thinking "I really need some extra angle on this one this time...".

There are some molds that I absolutely love that I don't bag, but it's because they would overlap with my current discs that already execute those shots or slightly different ones just as well. You can't bag every disc you love, but you also shouldn't avoid bagging a disc you love because your Roc can handle most mid shots...if you wish you had a Buzzz for some low ceiling tunnels too then put it in the bag. When pro's can throw mids 400' easily then a low ceiling Roc shot at 300' is a no brainer. For a normal person the Buzzz is easier.

I like having my favorite/most ideal disc for most holes. But I am also willing to use one that's "close enough." For example: I really really like PD's. They are a perfect 290ish-325ish forehand disc for me when new, and just perfect for my backhand once worn-in. But I think I've about convinced myself to use Vultures instead, which are almost interchangeable with a worn PD for my backhand, and just add a little hyzer(compared to a PD) on forehands. As much as I like PD's, Vultures will probably be available all year round, probably won't ever become collectible, and cost less to start with.

 

[jjmiller]

Too late to edit:

I should add that if I NEVER lost a disc, I'd throw my favorite every time. But I find that having even a thought of pulling a shot into some 10' tall buffalo grass or the Colorado River makes me uneasy about throwing my favorites in every situation. And since Vultures are easier/cheaper to replace than a PD...

Also, now that I think about it, I feel like those discs I don't care about so much that I throw when I'm uneasy about an errant shot are especially hard to lose...

 

[pjhayes7]

Also, now that I think about it, I feel like those discs I don't care about so much that I throw when I'm uneasy about an errant shot are especially hard to lose...

Totally agree. I have never lost a disc I threw instead of a favorite so I wouldn't potentially lose the favorite. But I have definitely lost some that I though before hand "don't lose this". Its like someone saying, "whatever you do, don't think of...". You can't help but think of that thing.

Funny thing, I fell in love with the Rival because I bought a used one for a tournament where I would be throwing Teebirds over water several times. I threw that used Rival so well because I did not care if I lost it, Teebirds are no longer in my bag. Unless I have a tournament where I don't want to lose a Rival.

 

[BrotherDave]

I started with discs I liked throwing and it evolved slowly into the discs that fit my game the most. The Breaker is an example of a disc that has stuck in my bag even though I don't particularly like throwing it just b/c it performs. I've dropped it en lieu of other OS putters, really OS mids, etc and it just keeps jumping back in the bag. I got an Envy the other day to try out in its stead, I love MVP/Axiom discs, and yet I fully expect the Breaker to retain its spot. :|

If I were to start completely over, I'd do the same thing except starting with a stable mid, stable putter, and stable driver. Once I found my stable go-tos, then I'd start filling around them on either side of the stability scale.