Course Green and Tee Erosion

[harr0140]

Thanks, Mike!

Does the drain need to be sloped in one direction to facilitate water flow, or does the pressure from in-coming water get the job done? I'm guessing the trench needs to be fairly level at the very least.

Also, is water supposed to only flow out one end? Or both?

Thank you!

The desire is for the lateral line to catch the water . . . it depends on the orientation of things but often times there will be a line perpendicular to this trench taking the water away (T Shaped) . . . or you can just continue to trench towards a lower area to let the water drain elsewhere.

With any drainage you need pitch on the drain to move the water.

 

[Jukeshoe]

The desire is for the lateral line to catch the water . . . it depends on the orientation of things but often times there will be a line perpendicular to this trench taking the water away (T Shaped) . . . or you can just continue to trench towards a lower area to let the water drain elsewhere.

With any drainage you need pitch on the drain to move the water.

Cool. Thanks for the insights. I've seen these in action, and got the basic concept down...just needed a couple of things cleared up. :thmbup:

 

[hawk12]

French drains have been installed very successfully at Knob Hill out side of Pittsburg. They put in a TON of work to dig them out, and they also used plastic tubes with holes to allow water to enter, and even the "sock" to keep out the sand and dirt do the drain stays open. All drains were also backfilled with stone.
These work great as I've played there before and after the drains were installed and made a major difference on some holes that had been very wet. These french drains also take much more work than you might think, as digging a couple trenches over 100ft or so gets laborious. 4" plastic tubing, sock, and stone also costs a bit, but its a semi permanant way to fix some erosion or standing water problems.
I'm a big fan and have in stalled these in my last two houses. Lost of work with lots of results.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Here's the link to Mike's most recent article (referred to in in the 2nd post of this thread).

Brings up several salient points which many course designers don't consider ahead of time with regard to the infrastructure necessary to help courses look and play better longer and be more self sustaining. A few ounces of preventions really is can be worth pounds of cure on that front.

I totally agree on that doing things with an eye toward the way our courses are perceived by the non DG community goes directly to whether or not communities see installing courses as a positive (or negative) thing.

Great job Mike! :clap:

P.S. Article itself contains links to the other parts he wrote.

 

[Jukeshoe]

French drains have been installed very successfully at Knob Hill out side of Pittsburg. They put in a TON of work to dig them out, and they also used plastic tubes with holes to allow water to enter, and even the "sock" to keep out the sand and dirt do the drain stays open. All drains were also backfilled with stone.
These work great as I've played there before and after the drains were installed and made a major difference on some holes that had been very wet. These french drains also take much more work than you might think, as digging a couple trenches over 100ft or so gets laborious. 4" plastic tubing, sock, and stone also costs a bit, but its a semi permanant way to fix some erosion or standing water problems.
I'm a big fan and have in stalled these in my last two houses. Lost of work with lots of results.

Thanks for the insights! The courses that have installed these around here (Lemon Lake Red #3 instantly comes to mind) have definitely made me a believer.

 

[tbird888]

Thanks for the insights! The courses that have installed these around here (Lemon Lake Red #3 instantly comes to mind) have definitely made me a believer.

There's one between 1's pin and 2's tee at Idlewild that made a huge difference. When I first started playing there, it was tough to stay dry walking through there.

 

[InnocentCrook]

There's one between 1's pin and 2's tee at Idlewild that made a huge difference. When I first started playing there, it was tough to stay dry walking through there.

They also added one to the first half of #10's fairway. It used to stay pretty soggy through there, now you'd never know.

They did add the perpendicular drain line that terminates in the woods on the right side (low side) rough.

 

[1978]

Built this right before a big rain, lucky! Will make a difference over time to the fairway which is to the right.
Bailey Road Park Cornelius #15 Fairway, preventative maintenance after observing water entering fairway from run off ditch.

Here are some pictures of erosion at a course, no maintenance had been done now look how bad the problem is. These are going to break or slide down hill and possibly hurt someone. Everyone needs to skip 1 round a month and do something for your course. Stop taking them for granted because you will lose them. The course was full of these btw.

Rotary Park, Huntington WV

 

[1978]

I had an idea... what do you think. Instead of worrying about erosion with RR ties, timbers, cedars AFTER it starts eroding. Spend a few extra $'s at the time of the concrete pour. Frame out the retaining wall and fill with crete, like pouring a footer. You could cap it off with soem red brick for aesthetics if you wanted, but then you would have permanent erosion control for $10-15, much less labor involved.

 

[BrotherDave]

I had an idea... what do you think. Instead of worrying about erosion with RR ties, timbers, cedars AFTER it starts eroding. Spend a few extra $'s at the time of the concrete pour. Frame out the retaining wall and fill with crete, like pouring a footer. You could cap it off with soem red brick for aesthetics if you wanted, but then you would have permanent erosion control for $10-15, much less labor involved.

Preventative measures are definitely the way to go. You might even be able to get some government money for things like this from environmental grants or something.

Concrete retaining wall would be a little fugly though. I'd look into something like gabions, there's probably no shortage of farmers in the area that can donate some rocks and then you'd have to just procure some wire. Mulch is something that is heavily underutilized IMO since the city and DOT usually have ample supply thanks to a tub grinder and having to clear roadsides all the time.

 

[harr0140]

I had an idea... what do you think. Instead of worrying about erosion with RR ties, timbers, cedars AFTER it starts eroding. Spend a few extra $'s at the time of the concrete pour. Frame out the retaining wall and fill with crete, like pouring a footer. You could cap it off with soem red brick for aesthetics if you wanted, but then you would have permanent erosion control for $10-15, much less labor involved.

That is the main reason I am writing the articles I am . . . to be a proponent of sustainable design and proper installation. It doesn't take years of storms to realize when something will become an issue if you pay attention. Just watch one storm and watch where the water pools and where it becomes a river.

We also know that almost every tee ever installed has compacted soil and thin turf around it . . . so why don't we push proper installation and preparation of these areas in the design and implementation process? Parks departments will look at us as responsible intelligent people if we are able to prevent some of these things from ever happening.

Let's do things correctly up front . . . and save ourselves so many problems down the road from having to correct problems.