Dave242, OUT OF HIS MIND!

[Emoney]

I feel if u go to flip city and base your review mainly off ur skill as a player,u will miss out on what this course and other 5 disc courses are really about. Flip has a feel to it that leviathan misses and if ur so wrapped up in shot making,ur gonna miss it. I rated leviathan a 4.5 and flip a 5,they both are the bees knees but flip is just so unique and i felt like i was in that field of dreams movie when i was at flip. IF U BUILD IT,THEY WILL COME (and then rate u a 4 disc cause they wanna feel different from the masses):doh:

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Big gulps huh?

Well, see you later

 

[Dave242]

I would have given him a thumbs-up except for his comments about the "up-and-over holes" (5,10,17). The 3 holes do not require the same shot at all. Hole 5 plays with the pin to the left (RHBH hyzer). Hole 10 is straight and a midrange-S curve seems to be the play. Hole 17 has the pin right of the tee pad line (RHBH anhyzer). These are all very different flight paths especially when you account for the elevation changes. I found this information to be very misleading.

Now we're talking - something actually about the course (and possibly a factual error on my part). Someone PM'ed me about the lack of multiple-path decision making required at Flip and I conceded that these holes indeed had good multiple paths with decisions on what gaps to take and flight paths to try. But, I did not change my review for accuracy since this nuance does not change the overall character of the course.

Here is my take on those holes. White dotted line is approximate line of play to the best gap I could determine (both my estimation as an ambidextrous player and by looking at the erosion patterns). Am I wrong that the basket on each is to the left of the line of play (allowing a RBHB slow speed fade to contribute to a good shot)? Let me know how far off I am please.

Hole 5: Basket is deeper than I could easily illustrate in a 2D drawing.

Hole 10: Basket is deeper than I could easily illustrate in a 2D drawing.

Hole 17: Same basic shot but with some S at the very outset.

If I am wrong on my estimation of these holes, I will update my review. I talked to Bill about them and he basically agreed with my perspective. He told me that hole 10 will be changing as soon as he gets around to it (for safety reasons mainly - basket too close to tee area on 11).

 

[Mark R]

A five for Leviathan, with its 'really rough' rough and a four for Flip does seem completely absurd. However, one man-one vote should apply.

As for ski hill courses, they seem generally overrated here.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

What's comical about this is that Tom and the other FCers are complaining about a 4.0 rating. Anything rated 4 and above mean these are the best courses, the "must plays." From reading Dave's review, he had great things to say about the course, and also noted a couple flaws (which is the point of the review process after all). Now if he rated it a 1 or 2 ( a la Redneck Estrogen's anti-tree ratings), I can see the issue. But, we're talking about Tom whining over a 4. So, based on Dave's rating scale, an A- isn't good enough for the FCers.

 

[TimSyl]

I don't think this word means what you think it means.

good catch...knew what I meant...NOT valuable...

 

[jdggna]

I don't see a problem with "really rough roughs" on a course. If it isn't penalizing you for throwing it there in what sense is it the rough?

Dave: Agreed on 5 and 10 from the pictures (I've never played it myself). 17 looks similar, but I probably wouldn't call it the same shot. Its hard to for me to say from just a picture, so I'll concede that I can definitely see how it could be possible to come to that conclusion from actually being there.

 

[tomjulio]

I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion. And, while Dave gives explanations for his ratings...the 4 for Flip is actually pretty accurate...but to give FC a 4, Valpo a 5 and Idlewild a 3.5 makes his opinions pretty invaluable to me.

EGGS-ACTLY.

..his reviews are his, and his only...with little or no real world help for 80% of the rest of the DGers.

PS...PLEASE read "HUMOR" into all of this. I see there are too many cardboard nancys with none of that mentioned word chiming in already.

 

[jkdisc]

you stirred it up now dave!

 

[Dave242]

I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion. And, while Dave gives explanations for his ratings...the 4 for Flip is actually pretty accurate...but to give FC a 4, Valpo a 5 and Idlewild a 3.5 makes his opinions pretty invaluable to me.

Dave seems like a nice guy and I enjoy some of his posts, but I don't put any stock in his reviews. Being a righty myself, his overwhelming left-handed bias just confuses me.
Case in point; he gave Yadkin County Park a 5 when the next highest rating is a 4 and the avg is a 3 1/2. Go figure.

In my review of Winter Park, I said that it is now my #1 course (and there is room for improvement.....for my tastes at least). That will be forcing me to make some adjustments to my rating scale......and Rogers Lakewood (Valpo) & Yadkin will almost certainly be the first 2 victims to loose their 5.0 disc rating.

Not that anyone necessarily cares too much, but I rated both of those at a 96 which I call an A+ (= 5.0 discs)......since early on I was getting too few A+'s when I was around 100 courses played. I call an 86 a B (3.0 discs) and a 76 a C. So, I am almost certain these two courses will be going to an A (=4.5 discs).

I love both of those courses an absolute ton and will defend them to the hilt as to why they are tied for #7 on my list of 285 courses played. Main knock on Yadlkinville is the natural tees and lame-o signage/navigation. Neither of those 2 issues factor into my ratings (but I 100% see why those do mean a ton to a lot of people).

TimSyl - glad to be an invaluable service to you.
Mando - not sure where you get that I have an overwhelming lefty bias. My favorite and most gratifying shot is a LHBH anny! See this post about my favorite shot on my favorite hole at Flip City (that I made just yesterday (before you posted what you did)

 

[tomjulio]

What's comical about this is that Tom and the other FCers are complaining about a 4.0 rating. Anything rated 4 and above mean these are the best courses, the "must plays." From reading Dave's review, he had great things to say about the course, and also noted a couple flaws (which is the point of the review process after all). Now if he rated it a 1 or 2 ( a la Redneck Estrogen's anti-tree ratings), I can see the issue. But, we're talking about Tom whining over a 4. So, based on Dave's rating scale, an A- isn't good enough for the FCers.

BZZZZZZZZZZ... wrong answer.

It isn't about Flip getting a four. It deserves a four from anyone if that's what they want to give it. BUT Valpo a 5 and then Leviathan a 5? Out of his frickin' mind. Let's break it down between my two fave courses: Leviathan vs Flip in every category and tell me how you get Leviathan over Flip. Ok lets go...

CHALLENGE: Leviathan. Without a doubt one of the toughest courses I know of.

MAINTENANCE: Flip. Second to none

RISK REWARD. TIE, with the edge going to Flips basket placements on many slopes

SIGNAGE: Flip. Great new tee number signs and a map at the beginning of the course. Leviathan has neither.

TEE PADS: Flip. Consistent oblong cement tees to very inconsistent shape ones at Leviathan

BEAUTY: Flip. Stand on hole 7 and tell me you have seen a prettier hole...anywhere.

CAMPING ONSITE: Flip. Leviathan...none.

NUANCES: Flip, OVERWHELMINGLY

WINNER....FLIP CITY


soooo...Dave in effect should state, "Hey, I like challenging courses and that's all I am rating these courses on. I will neglect all other aspects that make for a whole package." Yeap, that's what he should say.

...and Valpo a 5? Good course but some of the lamest and inconsistent tees ever. Same with his rating Winter Park a 5. NO tees there. Loose gravel.

OUT-OF-HIS-MIND!

 

[Dave242]

I don't see a problem with "really rough roughs" on a course. If it isn't penalizing you for throwing it there in what sense is it the rough?

Dave: Agreed on 5 and 10 from the pictures (I've never played it myself). 17 looks similar, but I probably wouldn't call it the same shot. Its hard to for me to say from just a picture, so I'll concede that I can definitely see how it could be possible to come to that conclusion from actually being there.

Agreed on your perspective on "really rough roughs". Leviathan does not have disc-loosing rough nearly like plenty of other courses do (including the other Mason County parks and Valpo).

I chose my words carefully in my review when I said "essentially" the same shot. To me, you can throw all three holes and get into easy putting range with the same disc, just released on slightly different angles. From those who have played Flip - agree or disagree. I am wide open to being wrong on my perspective on these holes.

 

[zenbot]

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[oddjob]

BZZZZZZZZZZ... wrong answer.

It isn't about Flip getting a four. It deserves a four from anyone if that's what they want to give it. BUT Valpo a 5 and then Leviathan a 5? Out of his frickin' mind. Let's break it down between my two fave courses: Leviathan vs Flip in every category and tell me how you get Leviathan over Flip. Ok lets go...

CHALLENGE: Leviathan. Without a doubt one of the toughest courses I know of.

MAINTENANCE: Flip. Second to none

RISK REWARD. TIE, with the edge going to Flips basket placements on many slopes

SIGNAGE: Flip. Great new tee number signs and a map at the beginning of the course. Leviathan has neither.

TEE PADS: Flip. Consistent oblong cement tees to very inconsistent shape ones at Leviathan

BEAUTY: Flip. Stand on hole 7 and tell me you have seen a prettier hole...anywhere.

CAMPING ONSITE: Flip. Leviathan...none.

NUANCES: Flip, OVERWHELMINGLY

WINNER....FLIP CITY


soooo...Dave in effect should state, "Hey, I like challenging courses and that's all I am rating these courses on. I will neglect all other aspects that make for a whole package." Yeap, that's what he should say.

...and Valpo a 5? Good course but some of the lamest and inconsistent tees ever. Same with his rating Winter Park a 5. NO tees there. Loose gravel.

OUT-OF-HIS-MIND!

 

[juanbond]

I never get hung up on how people review. With the decent user base here, I appreciate that everyone has a different way of rating courses. It all helps to contribute to the well-roundedness of the ratings here.

 

[cydisc]

You'd think Dave killed someone's dog.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

BZZZZZZZZZZ... wrong answer.

It isn't about Flip getting a four. It deserves a four from anyone if that's what they want to give it. BUT Valpo a 5 and then Leviathan a 5? Out of his frickin' mind. Let's break it down between my two fave courses: Leviathan vs Flip in every category and tell me how you get Leviathan over Flip. Ok lets go...

CHALLENGE: Leviathan. Without a doubt one of the toughest courses I know of.

MAINTENANCE: Flip. Second to none

RISK REWARD. TIE, with the edge going to Flips basket placements on many slopes

SIGNAGE: Flip. Great new tee number signs and a map at the beginning of the course. Leviathan has neither.

TEE PADS: Flip. Consistent oblong cement tees to very inconsistent shape ones at Leviathan

BEAUTY: Flip. Stand on hole 7 and tell me you have seen a prettier hole...anywhere.

CAMPING ONSITE: Flip. Leviathan...none.

NUANCES: Flip, OVERWHELMINGLY

WINNER....FLIP CITY


soooo...Dave in effect should state, "Hey, I like challenging courses and that's all I am rating these courses on. I will neglect all other aspects that make for a whole package." Yeap, that's what he should say.

...and Valpo a 5? Good course but some of the lamest and inconsistent tees ever. Same with his rating Winter Park a 5. NO tees there. Loose gravel.

OUT-OF-HIS-MIND!

You know what, I guess I was wrong. You've clear stated fact instead of opinion/preference/subjective matters. Every else who has slightly different view points will now also be considered wrong as well.

 

[tomjulio]

You know what, I guess I was wrong. You've clear stated fact instead of opinion/preference/subjective matters. Every else who has slightly different view points will now also be considered wrong as well.

Did you laugh at all when they shot Ole' Yeller?

...lighten up my friend.

 

[DavidSauls]

seriously guys is there really 3 pages worth of crap to be said about this

No. I've got 13 in the pool.

 

[zenbot]

I think Dave gets a raw deal around here.


*edit*

Then again, I've never played anything that he's reviewed. Maybe he is cuckoo.