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Disc speeds
- Thread starter MikeyDays
- Start date
JR
* Ace Member *
5-7 Innova scale maximum with the possible excepton of the least fading 9 the DX Valkyrie after breaking in. for a 400' thrower that means just a single hit to a hard object. Should be fairly soon for a 300' thrower.
Blake_T1
* Ace Member *
300' is about a 33-40mph average launch speed.
Everything speed 8 and under should fly as it was designed.
Speed 9 discs under 170g should fly as designed.
Understable speed 10 discs in the 155-165g range may be in reach, but not recommended.
Everything speed 8 and under should fly as it was designed.
Speed 9 discs under 170g should fly as designed.
Understable speed 10 discs in the 155-165g range may be in reach, but not recommended.
So you guys are saying I should be teeing off with a fairway driver and nothing faster?? My max is about 370 ft. My champion valkryie is understable and even my champion groove that I have had for 4 months. Why do manufacturers say discs with a speed rating of 9 or 10 are good beginners discs? And beginners throw like 150 ft. Are beginners only supposed to use a putter? Ive been BHing since this spring. My next purchase was probably going to be an orc.
Widdershins
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,155
MikeyDays said:
My maximum distance is about the same as yours. My primary driver is a Nuke, which I throw because it goes farther than anything else in my hands. Oh, and I cash at most tournaments I play in, in the various Pro divisions and have for the last decade or so. The Discing Down contingent would probably say I should not be throwing fast drivers either.
DiscGolfTeeSigns.com
* Ace Member *
you're not allowed to do things the disc was not designed for!!
Sure you can, Its called adjusting. Since when is a disc only designed for the EXACT speed you are going to throw it. Every disc is thrown at different speeds most every throw. Its more about how stable and dependable that disk is, which is why I like my ape.
JR
* Ace Member *
You are confusing compensation with off axis torque to adjusting. An Ape that ain't a mutant should not fly straight at 300'. Or 400'. The only way i know how to throw straightish with so beefy fast discs is to OAT them.
Mark throws with forehands so the situation is different because the spin to speed ratio is different to backhands. Plus a wider winged disc is helpful for gripping FH.
Mark throws with forehands so the situation is different because the spin to speed ratio is different to backhands. Plus a wider winged disc is helpful for gripping FH.
JR
* Ace Member *
Ok that may be the explanation then because at such a light weight you can get it up to a higher speed and i have heard that Bliz Apes are not as beefy as regulars. So depending on the other discs you have it just might not be OAT but if you have normal new heavy fast beefy drivers flying straight without a lot of fade it is more likely that you achieve it by OAT and not world record spin rate with almost no speed. The amount of spin would have to bu unnaturally high for that to happen.
One thing just to chime in on is if you just want to throw farther and farther and could careless about playing disc golf then buy whatever speed discs you want and don't listen to these guys. But if you want to actually play disc golf on good courses where you need to be able to use flex shots, annys, and tight tunnel shots then listen to these guys! I have learned so much from them and I'm telling you I am keeping up with people who have been playing for way long then me simply because I'm starting to learn to choose the right discs.
It's hard because the nuke or a speed 13 will go further then a speed 6 or 7 disc at first but most likely it's because you throw it harder and want it to go further. But in the end you are throwing it wrong and you aren't learning to work a disc and the reason you don't like the slower discs is because they dump on you and seem inconsistent. But the disc is t inconsistent you are. And you can take and ape nuke or any high speed disc and rip it and it's consostantcy will be to fade hard left and you start to get used to it and adapt to it. But in the end you are crippling yourself if you want to actually play the game.
And don't misunderstand me I'm preaching to the choir... I still wanna use a monster driver on every tee pad but what I have learned from these guys is you should be able to get a buzz to at least 250-280. And eagle or Leo up to 300-330. And anything over that start getting up into the bigger drivers. And I'm telling you, you learn how to get a slower disc farther and then move up you will be amazed how much better you will play.
And again, I am just submitting myself to the wisdom here but i went out today and bought and eagle and used it on every hole from 280-330 and I got pars and birdies on every hole and it was windy today. Never would have happened before...
So pushback all you want but if you want to learn disc golf and play the game then listen to the advise on this forum. Because I'm guessing the reason you posted to begin with is because you want to get better. But it's funny how when we don't hear what we want (such as get a nuke and you will throw 400') we get mad... Lol ... And that was me 2 weeks ago... HahHaha
It's hard because the nuke or a speed 13 will go further then a speed 6 or 7 disc at first but most likely it's because you throw it harder and want it to go further. But in the end you are throwing it wrong and you aren't learning to work a disc and the reason you don't like the slower discs is because they dump on you and seem inconsistent. But the disc is t inconsistent you are. And you can take and ape nuke or any high speed disc and rip it and it's consostantcy will be to fade hard left and you start to get used to it and adapt to it. But in the end you are crippling yourself if you want to actually play the game.
And don't misunderstand me I'm preaching to the choir... I still wanna use a monster driver on every tee pad but what I have learned from these guys is you should be able to get a buzz to at least 250-280. And eagle or Leo up to 300-330. And anything over that start getting up into the bigger drivers. And I'm telling you, you learn how to get a slower disc farther and then move up you will be amazed how much better you will play.
And again, I am just submitting myself to the wisdom here but i went out today and bought and eagle and used it on every hole from 280-330 and I got pars and birdies on every hole and it was windy today. Never would have happened before...
So pushback all you want but if you want to learn disc golf and play the game then listen to the advise on this forum. Because I'm guessing the reason you posted to begin with is because you want to get better. But it's funny how when we don't hear what we want (such as get a nuke and you will throw 400') we get mad... Lol ... And that was me 2 weeks ago... HahHaha
JR
* Ace Member *
Congratulations Pask for a great improvement! In actuality a proper disc for the job unlocked the true potential you had built up until now for the first time. The proper tool for the job in an enabler. You got enabled 
Blake_T1
* Ace Member *
every disc has a cruising speed range (for a given nose angle and RPM). within that range the disc will fly straight. exceed the upper bound of the range and the disc turns over. drop below the lower bound of the range and the disc fades.
more nose down reduces both the upper and lower bounds of the cruising speed range.
more spin increases the upper bound while decreasing the lower bound of the CSR.
a headwind reduces the upper and lower bounds of the CSR.
a tailwind increases the upper and lower bounds of the CSR.
if you exceed the upper bound, the disc will behave with aerodynamic lift.
to "get the most out of" a disc, you should be able to consistently exceed the upper bound of the CSR. this allows you to work its flight path.
if you cannot consistently exceed the upper bound of the CSR you will be more at the mercy of the disc's flight characteristics vs. being able to consciously manipulate the disc's flight characteristics.
it's one thing to develop a full set of disc skills and then choose to compensate with disc weight, understability, or form.
it's another to chase distance and ignore the learning curve.
more nose down reduces both the upper and lower bounds of the cruising speed range.
more spin increases the upper bound while decreasing the lower bound of the CSR.
a headwind reduces the upper and lower bounds of the CSR.
a tailwind increases the upper and lower bounds of the CSR.
if you exceed the upper bound, the disc will behave with aerodynamic lift.
to "get the most out of" a disc, you should be able to consistently exceed the upper bound of the CSR. this allows you to work its flight path.
if you cannot consistently exceed the upper bound of the CSR you will be more at the mercy of the disc's flight characteristics vs. being able to consciously manipulate the disc's flight characteristics.
it's one thing to develop a full set of disc skills and then choose to compensate with disc weight, understability, or form.
it's another to chase distance and ignore the learning curve.
I am definitely here to listen and get better. Ive been on for two weeks and am already making changes. Its great to be able to come on here and get advice from people that are better than me and have more knowledge about the game. I dont get a chance to play with anyone better than me in my area so I never really had a chance to do anything other than self teach.
Im not trying to resist, Im just trying to gain an understanding. The hardest part will be not using my high speed drivers when they are so trusted in my bag. I just recently tried that and I gained strokes but I will keep at it. Im not trying to be difficult and I really appreciate the feedback, thanks guys.
Im not trying to resist, Im just trying to gain an understanding. The hardest part will be not using my high speed drivers when they are so trusted in my bag. I just recently tried that and I gained strokes but I will keep at it. Im not trying to be difficult and I really appreciate the feedback, thanks guys.
What low speed drivers are you throwing? Because I hated everything I was trying until I went out and got a 174 champ eagle. I didn't like the teebird or Leo. But the eagle was the ticket!
And still use your big drivers when you have tons of room and they are 330+. Big drives is what keeps me loving the game. I actually get nervous when I'm about to rip it with all I've got... Lol. But the ticket is not to disregard the slow drivers
And still use your big drivers when you have tons of room and they are 330+. Big drives is what keeps me loving the game. I actually get nervous when I'm about to rip it with all I've got... Lol. But the ticket is not to disregard the slow drivers
Im hearing a lot about eagles. I might have to pick one up. I throw a 175 broken in champion valkryie which I like, a newer not broken in 175 champion teebird which I did not care for and no longer have, a pro leopard which I didn't care for as much as other discs (pro plastic is junk imo), I tried a champion spider which I really liked and it felt good in my hand, and then a roc and a mako which I like but dont throw for any hole over about 240 ft.
Opinions on champion vs. star??
Opinions on champion vs. star??
Blake_T1
* Ace Member *
Mikey: there are a LOT of shots out there that can be developed with the right approach. Sme of these shots are very difficult to develop with hi speed discs but can be learned relatively quickly with slower discs and then performed with higher speed discs after you have learned them.
It's very common nowadays for people to go too fast too soon and get too many specialized discs too soon which slows this process way down. I teach "old school," and try to get people proficient at every type of shot they'll have to throw in addition to learning how to throw far. A lot of it requires the "trust me" approach to learning
You have to remember that people have been plateauing in the 350'ish range since the cyclone came out in 93. More people reach 350' now than then, but out of those people, not very many of them can a) throw a cyclone/gazelle/polaris 350', and b) throw a large variety of shots, e.g. A true anhyzer.
If advice here seems rigid, it's because it works out well in the long run.
It's very common nowadays for people to go too fast too soon and get too many specialized discs too soon which slows this process way down. I teach "old school," and try to get people proficient at every type of shot they'll have to throw in addition to learning how to throw far. A lot of it requires the "trust me" approach to learning
You have to remember that people have been plateauing in the 350'ish range since the cyclone came out in 93. More people reach 350' now than then, but out of those people, not very many of them can a) throw a cyclone/gazelle/polaris 350', and b) throw a large variety of shots, e.g. A true anhyzer.
If advice here seems rigid, it's because it works out well in the long run.
Blake gives great advice, and speaking from a physics background, his analysis of disc behavior is spot-on.
Also, learning to work your discs will allow you to make the most with fewer molds...if you have a gimmick disc for each kind of shot, your bag will get pretty big!
A good stable fairway driver tends to be easier to control and less vulnerable to the wind.
Eagles can be very good (e.g., see how Feldberg uses them), but owing to the extreme variety of Eagles it is also a steep learning curve. I've thrown meethook Eagles that I couldn't for the life of me turn over, and I've thrown flippy Eagles that needed >45˚ hyzer in order to not flip past flat. All of these Eagles can be very useful, but you have to learn them all, and figure out how to find the good ones. The best Eagles are becoming expensive, because a lot of great players want them.
The same comments apply to Rocs, BTW.
Still, you only mention Innova discs. I personally think Discraft makes the best mid-range and fairway drivers that you can find in stores, and usually with decent plastic. Check out discs like the Cyclone, Stalker, Predator, etc. for fairway drivers, or the Comet, Buzzz, Wasp, Hornet, Drone, etc., for mid-ranges. I can throw my Buzzz out to 330', and my Cyclones almost as far as I can throw my Katanas (~380').
Also, learning to work your discs will allow you to make the most with fewer molds...if you have a gimmick disc for each kind of shot, your bag will get pretty big!
A good stable fairway driver tends to be easier to control and less vulnerable to the wind.
MikeyDays said:
Eagles can be very good (e.g., see how Feldberg uses them), but owing to the extreme variety of Eagles it is also a steep learning curve. I've thrown meethook Eagles that I couldn't for the life of me turn over, and I've thrown flippy Eagles that needed >45˚ hyzer in order to not flip past flat. All of these Eagles can be very useful, but you have to learn them all, and figure out how to find the good ones. The best Eagles are becoming expensive, because a lot of great players want them.
The same comments apply to Rocs, BTW.
Still, you only mention Innova discs. I personally think Discraft makes the best mid-range and fairway drivers that you can find in stores, and usually with decent plastic. Check out discs like the Cyclone, Stalker, Predator, etc. for fairway drivers, or the Comet, Buzzz, Wasp, Hornet, Drone, etc., for mid-ranges. I can throw my Buzzz out to 330', and my Cyclones almost as far as I can throw my Katanas (~380').
Blake_T said:
I'd consider stealing that and using it if golfers weren't such wimps.
I'm not sensing as much variation in disc golf instruction as exists (most of which is BAD), and that's a good thing. A beginner can get VERY lost VERY fast in trying to research the golf swing.
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