Discraft VS Innova Stability

[nosajeel99]

I just got back from throwing a couple of discs I just ordered. I got two different discs: An ESP FLX Surge SS as well as a Champion Monarch. Now, looking at the stability charts, it would seem the Surge SS is more overstable than the Monarch (discgolfcenter.com has their speeds the same with the Surge SS as -1 stability and Monarch as -4 stability).

On paper that looks like I have a somewhat stable driver that will slightly S and an understable driver that will turn hard/well/a lot for me. Well, in practice that isn't what happened. The Monarch was straight (and I mean straight) unless I put the anhyzer on it. The Surge SS seemed understable. It "S"ed quite a bit more than I thought it would. It only came back at the very end. I noticed this not only in this trial, but others as well and it seems that Innova discs have a "break in" period before they fly as advertized while Discraft discs basicly fly out of the box like they say.

Anyone else have this issue? Is that an accurate assumption?

 

[iDisc]

hmm... maybe its the weights that you're throwing?

but i agree somewhat because i throw the star teerex sometimes and it is supposed to be 0 HSS and 4 LSS and i would give it a -4 HSS and a 2 LSS.

innova seems to have varied flight characteristics with each disc so i try my hardest not to lose my trusty discs

( i also heard the "recipe" for teerexs changed.)

 

[DannyM]

If the weights are the same, then I'm not sure....
I do know this...the Monarch will fly very straight. It has the same flight pattern as the roadrunner, which is a VERY straight disc. A year or so back I bought a spectra from discraft, about the same weight as what I throw now. According to the charts it was supposed to be EXACT as to what Innova's sidewinder is. It's not even close. The spectra is MUCH more stable. So, sadly those charts are off.

 

[Lewis]

Marshall Street's chart has the Surge SS as slightly less than stable, and the Monarch as very understable. Hmm. I wonder how these chart makers measure the flight patterns.

 

[stargator231]

i had a couple monarchs and they both seem to be more over stable then they started to get beat and flip of so maybe with time the monarch will become less understable

 

[nosajeel99]

Marshall Street's chart has the Surge SS as slightly less than stable, and the Monarch as very understable. Hmm. I wonder how these chart makers measure the flight patterns.

Right, which is why I bought a Monarch. I wanted something that would predictably turn and I could still get good distance out of. My other understable drivers either flip too much or not enough. I was looking for consistancy. I though the unpredictability of those other drivers was because they were beat up. I mean -4 stability sounds really understable, especially compared to some -1 discs that turn more than this one.

 

[ScottJB]

Monarchs and RoadRunners

I am a Forehand Driver, I drive 350-375 on good days, and I think the prob you are describing is due to the fact that they both have very high cruising speeds, in other words, you have to really snap them hard to get them to "activate" that Understable flight. An average throw will indeed fly straight as your only getting about 1/4 of its turn potential, but seriosuly, when you really get a powerful snap off your drive they cook. When I throw the Roadrunner, forehand, it goes straight for about 125ft, then you can literally see the flight "activate" and it takes off hard left for a long arc then eventually faes back a little bit right at the slowest part of its flight.

 

[garublador]

Anyone else have this issue? Is that an accurate assumption?

You'll have to ask discgolfcenter how they came up with the ratings for the Surge SS. The official Discraft rating is "1.6".

Personally, the only cross-company flight chart I pay attention to is this one:

http://gottagogottathrow.com/discgo...1.pdf?osCsid=cca7e2f8f2f43907ec5081f0c0a42dfa

I agree with ScottJB and my guess is that you aren't getting these discs up to their cruise speed so you won't see the true flight ratings come through.

IMO, you'll have a hard time finding a disc that starts off understable that's also easy to control. Pros use these discs because they have the skills to control them and perfer them for whatever reason. To learn to throw shots like this you'll be better off throwing a beat up version of a disc in low end plastic that started off more stable. A beat Cheetah, Ace, Gazelle, Cyclone or even Valkyrie are all good discs for this shot.

 

[Gizmotronx]

Complicated

I'm thinking you must not be getting it up to speed as well. Practice your snap at the end of your motion with a towel to really get a good feel for it. You don't need power, as a lot of people say, to throw a higher 'speed' innova disc. You just need a strong snap.

I don't know about the speed characteristics of discraft since they don't put anything like that out there, but isn't the surge a 1.6 stability? That seems like it would equate more to a teerex, or maybe a wraith or orc. Monarch is on the other end of the chart from that.

So far to me it seems Innova discs become more understable as they wear. For a Champion though, this should a take a WHILE. A 2 year old DX is going to fly completely different from new one, but a 2 year old champion should be pretty much as it was new.

 

[GirdleRoc]

www.inboundsdiscgolf.com

I would compare the flight ratings to this site.

I have a Fresh Champion Monarch and a 2 year oldChampion Monarch.
They throw the same out of the box. I would say they started out with turn that was closer to -2 but over two years they fly like two different discs. MY old one is now more of a roller even though it is in nice shape.

The turn will eventually start to come but it seemed like it needed a break in period. I have never had that experience with any other innova discs. Usually they fly like their ratings out of the box.

 

[kevdiv48]

Nice necrobump of a nearly 6 year old thread...

 

[ljerome]

Sure, getting the disc up to speed can have a lot to do with it. I am no expert by any means.

However, with that said, here is how it seems to me, others may disagree. The flight of the same mold disc varies by color, by plastic, by run and of course by weight. In general (though not set in stone), Innova champ plastic starts out more stable. I won't buy another champ Valk because Star Valk simply matches the ratings better and is a better disc. A Star plastic Monarch will most likely be much closer to your -4 out of the box than the champ plastic.

Here is what I find really "Challenging". I bought a WHITE DX Destroyer 172 for a water hole. It flew awesome right out of the box and seemed to match the flight chart great. Pushed it out to almost 400 a couple of times. I finally lost it in the drink. I went to buy another WHITE DX but they only had a RED 172 in stock. Low and behold the Red was noticeably more stable than the white in the same weight, same plastic.

Same thing happened with Lat 64 FLOW. Bought an OPTO 169 that flew awesome and had amazing glide. Lost it, so I bought another at the exact same weight and it is a meat hook with much less glide.

Welcome to Disc golf is the only answer.

 

[curveball4]

Nice necrobump of a nearly 6 year old thread...

So how far back do you have to search to find a thread this old?

 

[keltik]

what is the reason for the Monarch now that we have the Mamba and blizzard/starlite plastic?

 

[Dan Ensor]

So how far back do you have to search to find a thread this old?

Channel Prerube, and it will be the first on the list.

 

[curveball4]

Channel Prerube, and it will be the first on the list.

Prerube frightens me

 

[kevdiv48]

So how far back do you have to search to find a thread this old?

Beats me, you're going to have to ask Mr. Gizmotronx about that haha.