dont tell me what I should throw!!!

[steveo69]

Based on the discs in your bag, I could play a round pretty well. I'd be missing an overstable utility disc like a Banshee or Predator.

I'd also have a hard time with the Buzz being my only mid. I need something like a Meteor or Skeeter to mix in for turnover shots, and some of your wants seem to address that.

I'd also need a beat-to-crap driver for turnover/roller drives. That's not really a "what's the best disc for this shot" sort of selection for me, I just use the most beat-up driver I've got. Maybe you are planning on using the Kite for this? If not, I'd skip the Kite.

The Skeeter, Mako and Dart are all fairly close. I'd pick one. The Mako is pretty much an Innova Buzzz, so I'd go Skeeter (actually I'd go with the Meteor but it's not on your list.) You could still add the Dart as more of an approach disc, but either the Aviar or Focus will do that for you as well. If it was me I'd pick a putter for my putt and approach duties and stick with it.

thanks for the input will keep that in mind whenever I have the extra cash to spend on some discs.

well my sidewinder turns over alot and have just recently been playing with a roller drive using the sidewinder also.

And yes my wants where aimed at filling the hole in my mids.

Also all last year I had just been working on keeping the disc flat. But having spent some time on the computer over this winter I have been working on a hyzer flip shot. Should I be able to preform this with any of the discs in my bag? I have pulled off a feew good ones with my eagle. I have yet to try this with any other disc. Would anouther disc in my bag be better for this?

p.s. sorry for anything spelled wrong I'm drunk. lol just had to spend the day with my crazy family.:wall:

 

[TheLyonsKing]

never thrown a mako...

 

[whiz]

I have to disagree with your distance requirements Lithicon. I max out around 350' (golf shots) with fairways but I can get my wraiths about 50' further without a huge loss in accuracy. At the courses I play this 50' often means the difference between having a putt for birdie or laying up for par (Charlotte, NC). Throwing a faster disc increases my ability to score well. I don't "throw FAR" but throwing a max distance driver does improve my scoring ability on the course. I think your distance requirements are a bit off. Here is my bag and rough distances for each disc.

E DD2: 375-425'

C-PD2: Wind distance disc ~350'

Star Wraith: 350'-400'

P/S/C-PD: 300'-350'

S-TD: 300'-350'

Glow Champ Fbird: 250'-325'

KC Roc: 250' - 325'

X/ESP/Z Comet: 250' - 325'

Wizard: 0'-275'

 

[Lithicon]

Not sure what the DD is speed wise, but the Wraith is 11. The 10's and 11's are sort of in between. The 12's and 13's are what I was mostly talking about. The 10's aren't bad, but don't usually offer much distance over the 7's without half decent form to back it up. But, generally require better form to push them much farther than a speed 7. 11's seem to break the mold and will give you a bit more distance without a huge loss in accuracy or a big power increase to actually get them there. But, still require around a true 350' of power to fly correctly. (By true power I don't mean distance lines. True distance is a straight, flat throw.) Some molds in the 10 and 11 range require around 380-400 to fly correctly. Mostly old mold Beast, and many other disc in this speed range.

So, there are some exceptions. But, for the most general ease of discussion it's easier to say that until you can throw your fairways 400'. You never technically require anything faster. And as I said before, even after can get speed 7's to that distance, 7's are usually still more than enough and you'd never need anything faster even after that.

The ease of getting a some 10's or 11's up to 400 for people that throw 350 with fairways might be a reason to carry them. But, most of them are only able to push those to 380 consistently and most of all accurately. That 30' very well could be what gives you a bird, but hoping it gives you that 50' will more than likely hurt you more times than it gives you a bird. Consistency is the key, and as I said. It's not bad to play with the faster speeds occasionally, or practice with them when your form is good. But, until then. There is absolutely no need for them.

 

[Jenks13]

Lith,
So my understanding is that the main reason people should not use 12 and 13 speed drivers is because they can't control them. I only use them for shots over 350 but I have really good control with the destroyer,katana, and pd2. I also throw my firebirds, eagle, and buzz on plenty of shots but if I have the control why not throw the higher speed discs on the holes that are 400+. I'm not trying to start an arguement, I just want to understand. I know that you guys say it creates poor form and mine is by no means perfect but I feel like I can throw just about every shot. I use both forehand and backhand and can push it out around 400 consistently. My main point is that if I have control over the disc why is it bad to use other than your thoughts of developing bad form?

 

[Lithicon]

DISC are an artificial inflation of distance for most people. Until you can literally line drive a certain distance on flat ground with no wind assistance with either straight, or left fade at the end, you're not hitting that true distance.

It's not that they breed bad form so much. They can, but won't so much if you're seasoned. The reason plain and simple MOST people don't get the added benefit of distance which is what these disc are designed for; for many reasons. You say you can control them, that's good. BUT, if that's the case you can control your slower drivers better, and with a little form work could throw them 400'. Then you can consider the higher speeds again. Just because you can throw consistently with it, doesn't mean you're throwing it how it was intended to be used, nor getting any added benefit from it. I can putt all day with a Predator once I get use to it and adjust myself to consistently put it in the same place. Does that make me a good putter, not exactly.


The over all key factor is your grip, most people will never throw these wider rim disc as far due to slippage. No matter how great it feels in your hand, unless you have basketball player sized hands. You're more than likely going to have enough slip on your snap to rob you of the true beneficial distance these disc can add. Thus hindering your ability to control it as well. And, yeah I know everyone tries to squeak every last inch of distance out of their current form, I understand it. But, these generally hurt you in the long run more than they help you with that added 5-15' you might get occasionally over your slower speed drivers.

I think the biggest thing people forget are there are slower speed disc, in MANY molds that will cover a plethora of shots. It might get boring throwing the same disc over and over. But, to me that's where seeing it pull off that beautiful shot over and over again is what makes me keep throwing it. The Valkyrie is an amazing example of this, it's right in that speed range that it's farther than a speed 7, but isn't too big for most like a Speed 10. I mean, it held the distance record for how long? The key as I said earlier is grip. I'm willing to say LESS THAN 25% of people if not more are physically capable of imparting proper power/spin on disc larger than speed 9, as most people's hands just aren't big enough. This might not be complete slippage, but micro slippage. It might not feel as though you're losing grip strength, but consistency tells the tail. The bigger you go, you widen the gap between your palm and finger. Thus being able to generate less grip strength.

 

[garublador]

The key as I said earlier is grip. I'm willing to say LESS THAN 25% of people if not more are physically capable of imparting proper power/spin on disc larger than speed 9, as most people's hands just aren't big enough. This might not be complete slippage, but micro slippage. It might not feel as though you're losing grip strength, but consistency tells the tail. The bigger you go, you widen the gap between your palm and finger. Thus being able to generate less grip strength.

The more I think about it and learn about throwing, the more I think this is correct. A lot of times people get obsessed with speed and "moving up" to faster drivers when really they're probably not physically able to get the most out of anything faster than speed 9-10 discs because of the rim width. I have "average" sized hands for my height, but I'm 6'2". I can comfortably grip speed 9 discs, get about 80% of my grip out of speed 10 discs and it drops off significantly from there, even when I'm "half hitting" (Teebirds going 400') it. I also notice that the wider the rim, the more difficult it is to half or full hit it. I even notice the difference between mids and fairway drivers, but it really drops off after that. In a few practice sessions last year I'd get at least a half hit out of every 3 Roc throws but only one even sorta hit (400' on a really low line drive) with anything faster than a speed 9. That was out of dozens of throws with those types of discs, too.