Equal Pay for Male and Female Pros?

[Aim For The Chains]

Tennis is for girls... Duh!

 

[RobA]

You guys are triggering me with your bigotry. Women most certainly deserve equal money. So you guys would say to a woman's face that she is not your equal and doesn't deserve equal payouts?

** Zealot alert - respond to this post at your own risk ** opcorn:

 

[hook_nuts]

Why women need a protected division if they are equal to men?
Should women need to be 1000 rated to get sponsored by a major disc golf company?

Women aren't equal because of the way society treats them so we need to do everything we can to promote women being equal, otherwise we are just reaffirming what society has tried telling them for years. Rating is just a number so sponsorship obviously should have nothing to do with it.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Lol. Okay Hilary.

What a joke this thread has become. DG tourneys are competitions! If you dont have a high level and number of competitors that are relevant .... dont expect to make $.

Its like some of you are saying a business with no customers and par service should be successful. Lets be real here.

 

[AndyJB]

The best example of a sport that I can think of that has been extremely successful in growing a huge base of female players and lucratively promoting its top professional women is tennis. They are probably the gold standard when it comes to gender equality in sports. So; what did tennis do right to get where they are, and what would we have to do to follow suit?

A ****load of hot Russian chicks.
That is the answer to both your questions.

 

[Pbmercil]

A ****load of hot Russian chicks.
That is the answer to both your questions.

That's perfect. I believe Val and Nate were just sent on that exact mission

 

[DGHippie]

Women aren't equal because of the way society treats them so we need to do everything we can to promote women being equal, otherwise we are just reaffirming what society has tried telling them for years. Rating is just a number so sponsorship obviously should have nothing to do with it.

You said "Women aren't equal" Are you trying to trigger me with your bigotry?

I'll let it slide for now. Here's my honest opinion.

I doubt that the women competing at the highest level of disc golf think that they are being cheated out of money because they are women. I have way too much respect for them to assume that they live that fantasy land. They know they are playing in a protected division against fewer, less competitive players. I would guess their thought process is closer to "We need more women playing, so we get bigger payouts in our women only division. #GrowtheSport"

 

[JC17393]

To reframe the discussion a different way:

I think most everyone is on board with promoting women's participation in disc golf at every level, including professional. I doubt anyone honestly wants to see FPO players treated as second class in the pro ranks, but for very real, unbiased, practical reasons they are right now. The big question is; how to do we change that?

The best example of a sport that I can think of that has been extremely successful in growing a huge base of female players and lucratively promoting its top professional women is tennis. They are probably the gold standard when it comes to gender equality in sports. So; what did tennis do right to get where they are, and what would we have to do to follow suit?

What are we defining as being treated as "second class citizens" in this discussion? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm honestly asking. As a TD, I definitely want to know if I'm unwittingly doing anything that would lead to anyone feeling that I was treating the women playing my event as "second class", simply so I can stop doing whatever that is.

 

[onemilemore]

Personally, I think it shoudl be Open, Advanced, Intermediate, Rec and Novice divisions only. Disc Golf should take a stand against sexism, ageism and all other forms of discrimination. Sort out the divisions by player rating only, give out players packs and/or trophies only in all divisions except Open and, by paying Open only, take away any basis for any claim that the women, noodle arms, codgers or any category doesn't get paid as much as any other division.

Didn't want this idea to be glossed over. I am all in favor of this. Let the best of the best be there.

To reframe the discussion a different way:

I think most everyone is on board with promoting women's participation in disc golf at every level, including professional. I doubt anyone honestly wants to see FPO players treated as second class in the pro ranks, but for very real, unbiased, practical reasons they are right now. The big question is; how to do we change that?

The best example of a sport that I can think of that has been extremely successful in growing a huge base of female players and lucratively promoting its top professional women is tennis. They are probably the gold standard when it comes to gender equality in sports. So; what did tennis do right to get where they are, and what would we have to do to follow suit?

I think disc manufacturers, as many of the major sponsors of players, could step up more. Go look at the Prodigy Team page and check out the number of men compared to women. Innova does a pretty good job of distributing sponsorships.

 

[DGHippie]

To reframe the discussion a different way:

I think most everyone is on board with promoting women's participation in disc golf at every level, including professional. I doubt anyone honestly wants to see FPO players treated as second class in the pro ranks, but for very real, unbiased, practical reasons they are right now. The big question is; how to do we change that?

The best example of a sport that I can think of that has been extremely successful in growing a huge base of female players and lucratively promoting its top professional women is tennis. They are probably the gold standard when it comes to gender equality in sports. So; what did tennis do right to get where they are, and what would we have to do to follow suit?

I'm no Tennis expert, but I was under the impression that Men and Women are in totally separate organizations. Women only play women in WTA and men only play men in ATP. I do not think that Disc golf can sustain 2 disc golfing organization with the current number of women competing in the sport. I guess a decent solution would be to actually create a Men's Open division and remove the generic Open division, but that would mess things up for the women playing smaller regional tourneys that can place or win at the Open or AM levels. I think things are fine how they are now. Tennis has been around for hundreds of years; we just need time to catch up. SJWs just need time to find a different tree to bark up.

 

[JNichols]

Honestly, JC, I think there may be a big Misunderstanding in the way "Payouts" in Tournament play are made, and/or where the $$$ for the payouts comes from. I am glad DGHippie gave his Honest Opinion above. It is not that Women are to be treated 2nd class in this sport, it is that we need More Women to Participate to Allow higher Payouts in the Women's Division.

 

[shanker156]

Personally, I think it shoudl be Open, Advanced, Intermediate, Rec and Novice divisions only. Disc Golf should take a stand against sexism, ageism and all other forms of discrimination. Sort out the divisions by player rating only, give out players packs and/or trophies only in all divisions except Open and, by paying Open only, take away any basis for any claim that the women, noodle arms, codgers or any category doesn't get paid as much as any other division.

This is the best idea if we are to go with full equality, but how many people who currently play in the gender and age protected divisions would cash? A handful at best. I am not sure this would go over well, which is why we do not see many if any FPO players complaining about payouts.

Women aren't equal because of the way society treats them so we need to do everything we can to promote women being equal, otherwise we are just reaffirming what society has tried telling them for years. Rating is just a number so sponsorship obviously should have nothing to do with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot think of anything in our current society that warrants the statement that women are not equal. With the overwhelming sway of society going the other way into equity as compared to equality, can you name a situation where gender prohibits someone from excelling in their field?

 

[Pbmercil]

What are we defining as being treated as "second class citizens" in this discussion? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm honestly asking. As a TD, I definitely want to know if I'm unwittingly doing anything that would lead to anyone feeling that I was treating the women playing my event as "second class", simply so I can stop doing whatever that is.

"treated" was probably the wrong word. They are treated fine, as far as I know. "Paid" would have been better. Realistically the FPO fields and payouts are so low calling FPO players "professional" is a bit of a stretch. In terms of earnings potential, yeah, they are second class citizens. I wasn't trying to imply that the were treaded poorly, merely that the realistic $$$ is a pittance in comparison with Open, or with a normal person full time job for that matter. Like I said the first time, I don't think any of that is unfair or unrealistic given the current state of the sport.

That probably has something to do with why virtually all of the top FPO players who actually do tour and play disc golf 100% full time are usually touring with a male spouse/significant other who plays Open. Val and Nate (previously Avery), Cat and Uli, Jessica and Nikko, Sarah hokum and... someone who's name I forget... ect. I have no idea if Paige tours with anyone or not?

 

[Pbmercil]

I would guess their thought process is closer to "We need more women playing, so we get bigger payouts in our women only division. #GrowtheSport"

And I think most of the rational universe agrees with that. The only real discussion to be had is: How exactly do we do that, and how can we do it better?

Because without some tractable discussion as to what exactly that entails, this is all just useless hand wringing.

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

Adults hiding behind pro age and gender categories is such a cop out. Rewarding old people and women monetarily for doing a mediocre job is asinine. If you got the skills you should throw Open

 

[JNichols]

What is the Highest FPO Rating as of Date? Does anyone know? I think Paige Pierce got the Honors recently with a 976, or close to it? 970 something?

 

[Pbmercil]

Adults hiding behind pro age and gender categories is such a cop out. Rewarding old people and women monetarily for doing a mediocre job is asinine. If you got the skills you should throw Open

Obvious troll is obvious, but I can't help it.

So, from your perspective then, there is no reason for women's athletics to exist in any form at all is there?

 

[JC17393]

That probably has something to do with why virtually all of the top FPO players who actually do tour and play disc golf 100% full time are usually touring with a male spouse/significant other who plays Open. Val and Nate (previously Avery), Cat and Uli, Jessica and Nikko, Sarah hokum and... someone who's name I forget... ect. I have no idea if Paige tours with anyone or not?

Paige tours with Madison Walker. Paige is the "breadwinner" in that car and they seem to be doing alright (they both get great support from sponsors too). And Don Smith is the name you're looking for for Sarah Hokom's travel partner.

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

Obvious troll is obvious, but I can't help it.

So, from your perspective then, there is no reason for women's athletics to exist in any form at all is there?

Just to be clear, I'm talking only players playing for cash. What's wrong with everyone playing for the same pot of money? There are plenty of woman and 40+ year old players that are skilled enough to make money.

 

[RobA]

With the news about the disparities between pay in women's and men's soccer (women's team gets $2 million for winning the world cup, while the a men's team receives $8 million for losing in the first round), it seems like an appropriate time to ask what we thought about equal pay in our sport. Should first place in MPO and FPO receive the same reward? If so, should this pattern continue down the line for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. in each division? Or is the current pay distribution for the women in suitable proportion to what men are paid?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/07/womens-soccer-pay-gap_n_7745892.html

There is a difference between pay and winnings. If all disc golfers were paid to do was to play disc golf, they yes every one should be paid the exact same amount.

The way the payouts are set up now, roughly, is similar to a lottery or a poker table. If one plays in a pool with more entrants, therefore more $$ paid in, than one has a better chance of winning more money. If one sits at the penny slots, than you will win but the pool is much smaller.

Now if we are talking administrative jobs at the PDGA, than yes everyone who holds the same job should be paid the same amount.