Esoteric thoughts...

[txmxer]

As long as it's coplanar, don't worry about cross products, just draw the free body diagram.

A point that gets missed: linear motion into an anchored brace point will only produce rotation if the linear motion of the center of mass is off center.

But the brace point is not necessarily anchored in 2D.

You really like word salad don't you?

I know what you meant to say, The brace has nothing to do with what you are describing. If you accelerated a disc from it COM, it won't spin. Because the force is applied as torque, it must spin.

The brace allows you to maximize the force applied due to the kinetic chain.

 

[hawgdriver]

The brace allows you to maximize the force applied due to the kinetic chain.

I love this description. I hope this corollary of sorts is also thought provoking:

The brace allows you to maximize the forces generated by the kinetic chain that are applied to the disc (txmxer formulation).

Corollary:

The brace minimizes the forces generated by the kinetic chain that do not increase the magnitude of the ideal force vector (from disc to target).

What I mean is if you dropped a clay pigeon launcher from the sky and fired it in the air, yes, the clay pigeon would fire, but wouldn't go nearly as fast or as far nor in the preferred direction--it would begin to spin as the spring is unlocked and much of the force that should go into the pigeon actually goes into the "un-braced" launcher body itself. Same idea with humans throwing discs, if that makes sense.

 

[hawgdriver]

reminds me of this fun one

https://what-if.xkcd.com/1/

poor batter, has no idea

 

[hawgdriver]

This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

But whatever works haha. I won't say I fully understand what you are trying to get across here, but my interpretation of it distills to "the move is dynamic", which I do agree with lol.

It was super unclear when I wrote "superposition of everything" so this is what I meant, which may be even wronger...but I believe my math is correct... (I mean superposition in the sense that you can break apart and combine vectors among dimensions so long as the magnitude and direction of the overall vector is unchanged).

Imagine you are about to crush and you have just done your x-step. You have momentum going toward the target. Simon says 'step offset when you plant', so you apply a little lateral (to the target) change to your plant foot location. Sure, the net momentum at center of mass is going in a single direction--but the mental gymnastics I'm talking about is the feeling that the lateral shift and consequent "keep your balance" force creates a sideways feel, one that feels though is has a perpendicular component to it when compared to the body's overall "to the target" momentum vector.

So I was trying to say that the overall vector of entire body momentum is the superposition of this lateral shift and consequent balance-force and the remaining 'to the target' momentum from the rest of the walk-up. Then I thought about all the other little forces going on everywhere else in the many muscles and bones involved and decided to lump them into an 'everything' bucket...

My mind often races ahead of what I'm able to write comprehensibly. It's awful for communication.

 

[hawgdriver]

A point that gets missed: linear motion into an anchored brace point will only produce rotation if the linear motion of the center of mass is off center.

Great point, and helpful in the sense that we might like our overall CG to travel perfectly opposite and atop the net ground resistance (i.e. the 'equal and opposite' force generated by earth in response to our brace).

Although now that I think about it, maybe you don't want CG perfectly atop the brace/resistance vector. After all, that disc is about to push against our moment "arm" (haha) with 175g at XXmph generated in 0.XXX ms. So whatever torque that generates, you probably want to offset your body's CG passage on the opposite side of the brace vector (when viewed from directly above) to allow maximum crush.

 

[timothy42b]

Imagine you are about to crush and you have just done your x-step. You have momentum going toward the target. Simon says 'step offset when you plant', so you apply a little lateral (to the target) change to your plant foot location. Sure, the net momentum at center of mass is going in a single direction--but the mental gymnastics I'm talking about is the feeling that the lateral shift and consequent "keep your balance" force creates a sideways feel, one that feels though is has a perpendicular component to it when compared to the body's overall "to the target" momentum vector.

Well, if your center of mass is moving in a straight line, and your brace foot is either in front of or behind that line, then there is a torque that will cause rotation.

But that torque may not be all or even most of the force that causes rotation. That brace leg can't be loose or it doesn't brace. I think it is applying significant force in a lateral direction as the knee and ankle extend.

My mind often races ahead of what I'm able to write comprehensibly. It's awful for communication.

In this type of discussion I think it is the use of words rather than diagrams that cause the difficulty in communication. I have an idea of what you probably are trying to say but can't be sure.

If your mind works in this direction, maybe apply it to something simpler. And maybe use diagrams. What really happens at disc "pivot?" What direction is the center of mass of the disc moving before and during the time when the hand rips away from the disc? How is torque applied there?

That should keep you busy a while.

 

[hawgdriver]

^ Diagrams or a white board would be sooooo useful. I could unleash my inner Feynman!