Form Critique

[tbr75]

Looking for some feedback. A couple things I feel like I'm missing:

-Elbow not forward enough. Whenever I actually wait for the elbow to go forward, the disc comes out of the hand slower but stays in the air longer. Ends up a little shorter distance.

-Release speed. I played with local pros a lot this summer, they have so much release speed out of the hand. Not sure what I'm missing. I do think my natural clamp pressure is far less than when I consciously clamp. Could be losing power there as I never consciously clamp.

-Hyzer distance. My game is centered around flex or flat shots. Getting really good at them, but would like to learn the hyzer game. Hyzer flips are much shorter than my flex shots, I may be getting the nose up?

From the video: I threw my normal shot and noticed the rounding. Tried a straight pull through and lost a ton of power. The one in the video was an outlier, the Thunderbird was more typical. That disc with normal form would go about 350'.



Forgot to add a normal speed clip. Sorry about that.

 

[sidewinder22]

All of those are rounding into the transition and you are tilted over the top. If you watch the top pro's reachback the disc typically starts inside and swings outward away from them into the max extension, while your reachback is the opposite starting outside and coming inside. The body and disc are pivoting in opposing ways. Also watch their head compared to yours, your head is tilted over right ear to the shoulder, while the top pros typically keep the more head level with the shoulders(stacked posture/braced) and move more balanced upright throughout. Try taking a much smaller x-step like:

 

[tbr75]

Tried the shorter steps today during a round. Throws started off going right, but once I adjusted it seemed to have more power and less effort. Tried to straighten my head but everything went high then. Will take some field work to fix that.

I notice I have a little too much backward angle at plant and my elbow is above my left knee where the pros are above the left hip (besides Will).

What do you think about throwing from the left peck with no reachback? Try to see what it feels like getting the disc through the chest straight and have the elbow forward. Might help isolate the other issues and solve them first.

 

[sidewinder22]

Tried the shorter steps today during a round. Throws started off going right, but once I adjusted it seemed to have more power and less effort. Tried to straighten my head but everything went high then. Will take some field work to fix that.

Sounds good, may need to adjust your grip, balance, upper arm angle width(elbow).

I notice I have a little too much backward angle at plant and my elbow is above my left knee where the pros are above the left hip (besides Will).

What do you think about throwing from the left peck with no reachback? Try to see what it feels like getting the disc through the chest straight and have the elbow forward. Might help isolate the other issues and solve them first.

Generally I'd say try anything different and see what happens. I think most of what you are seeing is due to your upper arm(elbow) hugging yourself(less than 90 degree) instead of staying more forward/wide out more than 90 degrees. Also the pros are balanced more centered/forward. Will turns further back than most the other pros, more flexible and lanky.

 

[tbr75]

Improved my grip, getting more pinch and spin instead of pulling into the palm. May have lost some nose down though... Consciously shortened x-step, but the 2nd step with left foot is still a bit longer than the pros. 2nd throw I kept my head stacked, that's gonna take some practice to make habit. Disc still went high with stacked plant though.

1st throw was the best, glow firebird that went about 370 on a slight flex. Looks like the elbow got more forward.

Still sliding the disc towards my body at max reachback transitioning to the weight shift. Any suggestions on what to think of to fix that?

Most throws didn't feel powerful at all, but the 1st in the video felt solid. 2nd & 3rd weren't powerful but flew well.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Stop throwing Firebirds, that one of the worst discs to try and learn to throw BH especially for distance. Even McBeth said he can't properly BH Firebirds. Throw your putters/mids/Teebirds/Eagles/Roadrunners.

2. You aren't turning your shoulders back far enough and keeping your arm wide/elbow out/forward enough.

 

[tbr75]

Agreed on firebird, I decided mid round to film after bag was half emptied and it was my only driver left. I did note the distance, but mainly was analyzing the form and how it felt out of the hand.

Frame drill looks like it should help with my major issues. Will give it a shot again

 

[tbr75]

Working on trying to keep the arm wide. Haven't put the practice into keeping the head stacked, trying to work on one thing at a time. Xstep is looking better and not as big of steps as it used to be.

Breaking these old habits is tough.

 

[sidewinder22]

The way you stride/shift weight is incorrect, you are leaning too far over forward so your weight/ spine is not all shifting together from behind you braced. Try not x-stepping, like Ulibarri's old form, so you stay more balanced upright moving forward. It should feel quite different in your balance moving that way and it will probably take a few tries before you don't fail miserably.

You can see your front foot spinning out before you even get into the power zone. You are essentially trying to shift your weight from in front of you instead of from behind you like in best downswing weight vid above. You need to resist turning the front hip somewhat to shift your weight forward, once your weight is braced forward the hip clears out of the way giving you more space to swing through a power pocket.

 

[tbr75]

Had a question on leading with hips like in the hershyzer drill. I tested it, and it seemed to feel best when I would land the toes of the plant foot then lower the body/bend the knees, crush the can, and send the hips forward all in a sequential quick order. Can crush and hips are pretty much the same time. Does that sound like the right sequence?

Doing it the way I explained seems to have created a nice axis that the body/arm rotates around, whereas before the axis seemed to move all throughout the throw. I have to come into the plant very slow to get the timing right.

I also went back to the old way I did the xstep which is more upright. When I do it it feels like I'm leaning back, but on video it looks pretty good.

 

[sidewinder22]

Sounds about right.

 

[tbr75]

My attempt at Uli's old form. Good to see that it looks as weird as it feels.

Wife left after these videos, so didn't get a chance to video the rounding fix. I started looking back a little later and seemed to help. The reachback was straighter, but arm still wasn't wide away from the body.

Seems like I'm not spinning out as early as I was and brace is better. Head is still leaning forward at the plant, but it doesn't feel like it's moving forward and pulling the shoulders around before the lower body.

 

[sidewinder22]

Much better, need to turn your feet(and yourself) backward a little more and move a little more upright with more rhythm and stride. Watch Uli's feet when he goes airborne vs yours. Your feet are moving closer and further apart, while Paul's feet stay at the same width apart then strides.


FYI Youtube tags only put the "O4TZEWUUIYA" part in them, not the whole youtube url.

 

[tbr75]

Yea didn't double check after posting. Could have sworn I copied just the end, oh well.

I'm gonna work more on rounding next, turning back more makes me hug myself.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm gonna work more on rounding next, turning back more makes me hug myself.

Turning back more should do the opposite, un-hug youself and make you wider/not round/elbow forward relative to shoulder.

 

[tbr75]

In the door frame drill, I internally rotate the upper arm/shoulder. When I do this while practicing form with no disc it gets the elbow higher and gets my arm wider, pretty much looks like I'm punching backwards in the reachback. Wanted to make sure I'm not asking for injury if I actually throw like that?

It lines up the disc with "downward tilt" as ZJ talked about here: http://www.heavydisc.com/2015/02/the-downward-tilt.html but thought I'd read somewhere to get the tilt by rotating the forearm not the upper arm.

 

[sidewinder22]

Not really sure if it is an injury risk, but I think it could be more susceptible just like throwing overhand vs underhand. The arm naturally rotates some in the shoulder socket during the swing like a punch. The anhyzer tilt is more over the top swing plane like a jab or baseball throw. While hyzer is more underneath plane like an uppercut or granny throw or cornhole toss. I pretty much always stay underneath like Steve Brinster and keep the disc level to the shoulder plane at all times. For players that struggle with turning discs over or not throwing on their intended line I'd recommend Brinster's technique.

 

[tbr75]

Made some decent progress about a few weeks ago and was hitting consistent 380' hyzers with destroyers and about 410 on golf distance lines. Here's a video of that form, this was a 375' hyzer:



That started getting inconsistent so I'm slowing my xstep to a crawl. Here's my latest form I'm trying to work with:



In this video, I was really trying to get the elbow forward which I can never do. I tried twisting/pushing forward at the upper ribcage level under the arm pit leaving the rest of my shoulders and arm loose. This helped a bit, but I think what I'm really missing is the shoulder pause that lets the elbow get forward before actively throwing. No idea how to incorporate that, seems like something that should happen because of positioning not consciously pausing the rotation.

 

[sidewinder22]

Still not moving/striding forward without swaying your rotational axis(butt wipe) or shifting from behind(best downswing weighshift).

 

[tbr75]

Not a whole lot of progress, posting for my future reference. But my throw lately has been better. This was a thunderbird out just past 400. My latest change has been shortening my left foot 2ND step, looks like this video it's a bit longer than it had been. Landing it just in front on my right foot similar to mcbeth has helped time my peak reach back as well as hugging myself