GameProofer "smart" attachment for your discs

[ChrisWoj]

Most disc golfers think they want a sensor to measure the actual flight of a disc on the course; I was in this camp for years too. But once people get a chance to use these products I'm not sure that's how it will shake out in practice.

I think what you're describing is more a difference in market than a difference in what the devices could be useful for. And I get that. You're going to make a lot more money marketing to people who just plain can't throw yet, which is honestly the bulk of the disc golf population.

Once a player has an established throw, is breaking that 500' barrier, is accurate enough to put that shot to use and score low.... the more fine applications become more important. Such as getting into a field and baselining the discs in your bag, that you actually throw, and getting confirmation that you're correctly throwing particular shots when you're doing work at home into the nets.

 

[GameProofer]

TechDisc here. I wanted to jump in and point out that it looks like we're creating different products. TechDisc is a launch monitor that's most effective when used to practice your form in a net. It measures all the angles and forces you put on a disc and simulates the flight so you get instant feedback on your throw.
The others ones appear to be focused more on throwing it on the course and helping you find it or getting you some data from the flight. They may look similar but I think they're intended for different uses. I guess we'll see when they ship.
But hey, soon you will have a few options for your disc golf sensor products. What a time to be alive!

Just thought to correct that GameProofer can also be thrown to the net, as +900 registered throwers just did during the European Open event.

As of today, you get info about your Throw Speed (hand speed), Flight speed (of the disc), speed ratio (in between Throw and Flight speeds), Spin, and Vibration (i.e. Flight stability).

With +150m/+500ft Bluetooth range, GameProofer works well in the field as well. And GPS will tell you the Distance of the throw, as well as enables the Find-My-Disc feature.

 

[tech_disc]

Just thought to correct that GameProofer can also be thrown to the net, as +900 registered throwers just did during the European Open event.

As of today, you get info about your Throw Speed (hand speed), Flight speed (of the disc), speed ratio (in between Throw and Flight speeds), Spin, and Vibration (i.e. Flight stability).

With +150m/+165yd Bluetooth range, GameProofer works well in the field as well. And GPS will tell you the Distance of the throw, as well as enables the Find-My-Disc feature.

Good to know! How close can the net be, or asked another way, how far does the disc need to fly to get accurate data?

 

[GameProofer]

The main difference between your sensor and GameProofer for my purposes is the lack of angle reporting. Otherwise it has what I need.

But yeah throwing into nets is why I would prefer it be removable. I'd love to baseline a disc profile by, for example, throwing my Zone on hole 1 of my home course and getting the readings for my typical perfect tee shot. And then taking it home to attach to a generic midrange to throw into a net to throw that shot.

I could also baseline to particular shot shapes and distances in the field. It improves my ability to work on particular shots at home into the nets. Replicating baseline throws.

I want to work on my straight to fade shots today to 250-350 in 25 ft increments using my nets for the molds I throw. Not for a generic mold.

GameProofer will report nose and tilt angles as well. Not yet, but soon. Today's hardware is ready to measure them, but some firmware and software work needs to be finished. Then we also want to do a thorough testing and validation, like we did with Spin and Speed. We performed high-speed camera shooting to verify that our data is correct.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Just thought to correct that GameProofer can also be thrown to the net, as +900 registered throwers just did during the European Open event.

As of today, you get info about your Throw Speed (hand speed), Flight speed (of the disc), speed ratio (in between Throw and Flight speeds), Spin, and Vibration (i.e. Flight stability).

With +150m/+500ft Bluetooth range, GameProofer works well in the field as well. And GPS will tell you the Distance of the throw, as well as enables the Find-My-Disc feature.

I appreciate the speed ratios. How tightly have the speed ratios correlated with the "Vibration" number you get? I assume higher vibration results in greater disparity between speeds?

 

[GameProofer]

I appreciate the speed ratios. How tightly have the speed ratios correlated with the "Vibration" number you get? I assume higher vibration results in greater disparity between speeds?

We haven't analyzed the last week's results in details, yet. European Open was the first event with high number of throws (~4000), where we used the latest HW and FW.

What we did notice with majority of the MPO players was a high(er) vibration in top speed throws… until Thomas Gilbert came and threw very low vibration with high speed

 

[ChrisWoj]

We haven't analyzed the last week's results in details, yet. European Open was the first event with high number of throws (~4000), where we used the latest HW and FW.

What we did notice with majority of the MPO players was a high(er) vibration in top speed throws… until Thomas Gilbert came and threw very low vibration with high speed

When you say top speed - hand speed or flight speed?

Also - when does flight speed begin? Immediately out of hand? 10'? 20'? I'm actually really curious how the disc registers that a disc has left the hand to transition to registering flight speed? (I suppose that question kinda pairs with the tech disc person's question about the nets)

 

[GameProofer]

Good to know! How close can the net be, or asked another way, how far does the disc need to fly to get accurate data?

Can you pls define "accurate", and what kind of accuracy have you tested and verified?

 

[GameProofer]

When you say top speed - hand speed or flight speed?

Also - when does flight speed begin? Immediately out of hand? 10'? 20'? I'm actually really curious how the disc registers that a disc has left the hand to transition to registering flight speed? (I suppose that question kinda pairs with the tech disc person's question about the nets)

With top speed I mean the highest speeds that an individual has thrown in general. We noticed that pro players particularly, has a very high speed ratio. Meaning, they are really good on moving the force/speed from their throw to the flight speed of the disc.

Trust you understand, but I can't reveal the details, how we recognize the moment of the release. But I can tell you that it's really spot on. This is something we also validated in highspeed camera shootings. In simplicity, Throw speed is measured prior to the release, Flight speed after the release.

 

[Sewer bill]

Oh hell yeah two companies duking it out over my money I'm all for it.

Whoever sells a stick on pcb bare bones mems gyro with open firmware gets my 300 bucks.

I don't want a beeper I don't want a gps I want a flat single sided pcb with 3 axis accelerometer and stupidly high refresh rate with an unpopulated button trace on the pcb I'll ground it myself to toggle functions for durability. Doesn't even need to be cleaned you can ship it with sticky solder mask I'll do my own conformal coating.

 

[colink]

With top speed I mean the highest speeds that an individual has thrown in general. We noticed that pro players particularly, has a very high speed ratio. Meaning, they are really good on moving the force/speed from their throw to the flight speed of the disc.

Trust you understand, but I can't reveal the details, how we recognize the moment of the release. But I can tell you that it's really spot on. This is something we also validated in highspeed camera shootings. In simplicity, Throw speed is measured prior to the release, Flight speed after the release.

I'm really intrigued by your product because you can get information about the thrower AND the disc. Have you done the fabled "Over Mold Experiment", and determined how over mold discs fly differently from single mold discs regarding angular inertia, push and fade?

 

[Murwen]

From what I can tell, GameProofer will require a paid subscription to some phone app in order to use, is this really the case? If a free tier is supposed to be available, which derived measurements are you then planning to keep behind a pay wall? What value would I recieve for the cost of a recurring subscription?

Would I be able to access the measurement data from either GameProofer or TechDisc and process my it locally either company went under, or if I simply felt like that's something I'd like to do?

 

[ChrisWoj]

From what I can tell, GameProofer will require a paid subscription to some phone app in order to use, is this really the case? If a free tier is supposed to be available, which derived measurements are you then planning to keep behind a pay wall? What value would I recieve for the cost of a recurring subscription?

Would I be able to access the measurement data from either GameProofer or TechDisc and process my it locally either company went under, or if I simply felt like that's something I'd like to do?

Related to what Murwen asked - will the offer of a free subscription for sure be open through August? It won't close once you reach some subscriber/pre-order number? A friend and I are debating between the GameProofer and TechDisc (we may pool resources and split cost on one of each) and we want to make sure to come to our decision before that offer expires.

 

[Sewer bill]

Subscription tech BOOOOO. It costs pennies to get low volume pcbs etched and wave soldered and I'm pretty sure everything could fit on a stamp single sided and this isn't anything crazy design wise.

 

[Countchunkula]

I'm really intrigued by your product because you can get information about the thrower AND the disc. Have you done the fabled "Over Mold Experiment", and determined how over mold discs fly differently from single mold discs regarding angular inertia, push and fade?

You'd probably need to use a Wizard or something as a control if you really want to test the impact of the overmold. Wiz was the og gyro disc afaik. Thinner flight plate than what was common at the time and I believe the flight plate is thinner in the center than at the edges.

 

[Nick Carroll]

We haven't analyzed the last week's results in details, yet. European Open was the first event with high number of throws (~4000), where we used the latest HW and FW.

What we did notice with majority of the MPO players was a high(er) vibration in top speed throws… until Thomas Gilbert came and threw very low vibration with high speed

Thomas Gilbert has been said (by Nate Sexton, among others) to have quiet throws. IE there's not as much of an audible snap at release. Is that what the vibration metric measures? I don't think he releases the disc early. I think his grip is somewhat light.

 

[jupiterboy]

How much does it weigh?

 

[GameProofer]

I'm really intrigued by your product because you can get information about the thrower AND the disc. Have you done the fabled "Over Mold Experiment", and determined how over mold discs fly differently from single mold discs regarding angular inertia, push and fade?

We're a technology company, so we supply the tag and we let disc manufacturer's to take care of the discs.

 

[GameProofer]

From what I can tell, GameProofer will require a paid subscription to some phone app in order to use, is this really the case? If a free tier is supposed to be available, which derived measurements are you then planning to keep behind a pay wall? What value would I recieve for the cost of a recurring subscription?

Would I be able to access the measurement data from either GameProofer or TechDisc and process my it locally either company went under, or if I simply felt like that's something I'd like to do?

There will be a free app to see the parameters of your throw. However, some planned features will cost us money so those will fall under the monthly subscription for those who are willing to use them. To give you an example, one is a throw history and storing it to the cloud.

 

[GameProofer]

How much does it weigh?

Current weight with enclosure is 9g / 0.32oz.