[Mids] Getting Existential With Midrange Discs

[HERB brooks]

Well maybe not existential exactly... but I'm looking to have a thread about the purpose of midrange discs.

One common theme throughout my disc golf career has been a struggle to throw midrange discs. I started playing disc golf again regularly around March 2015, after not playing since one summer in my childhood (maybe 1998 or 99 don't really remember). I had a Roc and Cobra back then, didn't throw either particularly well, but I didn't throw anything particularly well back then. Since I picked the game back up I've tried several mids (Buzz, Emac Truth, Tursas, Wasp, and Panther are ok discs but nothing has stuck). Right now I'm using faster putters and slower fairways to cover midrange distances. I am using the winter and early spring to try some new things in my bag and am quite open to using a midrange again even ones I've tried before. I'm not a huge mold minimalist but I don't see myself ever having more than 2 midrange molds.

Please don't just tell me to get the disc/discs of your choice. I'm not necessarily looking for disc suggestions but rather others opinions and experiences. If you have suggestions of a good midrange or want to talk about what you are bagging and want to share, that's welcome and encouraged, but explain what makes it something thats essential to your game. Ideally this will be more philosophical than a I use disc X for Y and Z type of shots thread.

I'm looking to hear others thoughts about the purpose of mids, roles they should fill in the bag, how they are to be used most effectively, what makes a good workhorse, etc... Can fast putters and slow fairways cover midrange territory or is that too big a gap in a lineup? What lines are best suited for midrange? Thoughts about smaller diameter midrange vs large...What do mold minimalists look for? What do guys that like specific mold for specific shots look for?

 

[DesertFox]

The best way to find out what each class of discs do for your game is to not carry them at all. Only when you come across a situation where you wish you had an X class disc do you know if you need it. If you can get most of the time without such and such and manage to score well, then you dont really need it. Ive done this myself many times where i didnt carry driving putters, mids, fast drivers and now I know what I do and do not need for a given round.

 

[SD86]

I'll try to be as philosophical as possible.

First, historical: back in the day when the Leopard was a long-range driver, and the Gazelle, Eagle and Teebirds were drivers, the mids truly were the middle-range discs. Then the Valkryie and other faster drivers began coming out. Now, drivers go as high as speed 13, 14, etc. (without getting into the weeds on relative numbers), and the "mids" aren't really in the middle anymore.

Mids back in the day were mostly speed 4 or so, a few were speed 3. Then came innovations and renovations, and more mids came out with speed 5 designations. Again, don't want to get in the weeds on these speeds, but the Mako3 became a faster Mako, the VCobra a faster Cobra, the Roc3 a faster Roc, and so on and so forth.

We now see a new niche coming out, the "approach"... these are the fast putters that are now in that speed 3-4 category that once housed mids. Discs like the Prodigy A-Series, the Innova Colt, Stud and Mirage, etc.

And putters have become faster in their own right, at least some of them.

Sooo, where does that leave us now. You (OP) remarked that people go from putters to fairway drivers without using mids, and that can and does happen... and it might be the best thing for some. IMHO, it depends partly on how far one throws, partly on what courses one regularly plays, and partly personal preference and what one is comfortable with. And as one gets better as a DG player, the strategies and the discs might change, as well.

For me, I use mids for throws that would be at or beyond the distance I can throw putters. Lets say I have a 220 ft. throw to the basket over level ground. I can get a putter there, with a (near) full power throw. I can get my Star Stud there with a hard throw. But I can throw a good controlled shot without feeling like I have to rip it by using the Mako3, or Buzzz, or Panther (discs I carry; hence saying them by name. Others may use different discs, of course.). Some would rather throw that putter, and go to the fairway drivers for longer shots, and that's fine by me.

There are some courses in my area that I play that I can leave the mids at home and not miss them. These are open, pitch-and-putt courses where I drive with the driver and then go for the Stud/Mirage or even the P2. Then there's more technical courses where having a mid for a nice controlled shot is more needed.

So your game on your courses will have to decide if putter-to-fairway-driver works best, or if you need a mid. In closing, I'll just say that IMHO an overstable mid for approaches, utility shots and wind-fighting would be an extremely valuable addition to one's game no matter what overall strategy you apply in making up your bag.

 

[HERB brooks]

The best way to find out what each class of discs do for your game is to not carry them at all. Only when you come across a situation where you wish you had an X class disc do you know if you need it. If you can get most of the time without such and such and manage to score well, then you dont really need it. Ive done this myself many times where i didnt carry driving putters, mids, fast drivers and now I know what I do and do not need for a given round.

Thats pretty much what I did early last spring and got rid of the midranges i had in the bag. I'm throwing farther now compared to then and my backhand is getting much better, my FH is still better. So I feel like now that I can throw the fairways farther out I'm getting more of a gap between them and my throwing putters (in my case Wizards and Pigs). I can give the putters more gas, anyhzer, height, etc... to coax out extra distance, but I'm starting to think my needs have changed and want to at least experiment with a few different mid options

 

[HERB brooks]

I'll try to be as philosophical as possible.

back in the day when the Leopard was a long-range driver, and the Gazelle, Eagle and Teebirds were drivers, the mids truly were the middle-range discs. Then the Valkryie and other faster drivers began coming out... Mids back in the day were mostly speed 4 or so, a few were speed 3.

From what little I remember the XL and Valkyrie were huge when I was a kid, i only remember speed 4 mids. I only had a handful of discs and only played for that one summer

We now see a new niche coming out, the "approach"... these are the fast putters that are now in that speed 3-4 category that once housed mids. Discs like the Prodigy A-Series, the Innova Colt, Stud and Mirage, etc.

And putters have become faster in their own right, at least some of them.

The putters I bag nowadays all are capable of flying far, I find them very consistent from 200-250 and in depending on mold. If I had a bigger arm they would still be viable for longer distances, as the Wizard and Pig are fast putters (ok maybe not the Magic that would get flippy)

it depends partly on how far one throws, partly on what courses one regularly plays, and partly personal preference and what one is comfortable with. And as one gets better as a DG player, the strategies and the discs might change, as well...

For me, I use mids for throws that would be at or beyond the distance I can throw putters. Lets say I have a 220 ft. throw to the basket over level ground. I can get a putter there, with a (near) full power throw... I can throw a good controlled shot without feeling like I have to rip it by using the Mako3, or Buzzz, or Panther.

:thmbup: I agree that personal preference plays a huge role in bag makeup and disc selection. I have always preferred the feel of putters and fairways over midrange discs but I feel a midrange could potentially be a good tool to help my backhand game. Right now if I have a shot at 260-280' its out of my Wizard range (BH driving putter). I can gas a Pig on a high slight anhyzer FH line to coax just enough distance or back off a fairway FH (any of the 3 i carry depending on situation) and hope i don't accidentally overshoot and leave a long putt. It works the majority of the time but I like to tinker and feel like I prematurely kicked mids this pastspring

 

[EROPPER]

It looks like the OP is primarily a FH dominant?

If so, an OS mid would be invaluable IMHO- I throw a Buzzz OS-for that shot-upshots and shorter drives- a Gator type would work also?
-
Personally I like my mids to be versatile for FH and BH- (true switch hitter here) I like the way the BUZZZ type discs feel for both- So, It's all about personal preference with the feel of the disc- fwiw I can't FH Rocs to save my life

Right now I have 5 mids I am carrying, soon to add a 6th(Compass) or a 7th(beat Roc3) love me some mids! probably because my home courses are tight, wooded, control courses for the most part

 

[AndyJB]

I dont know where I would be without my Rocs, but I also dont play as many courses as I used to. A lot of it comes down to that. The course closest to my house is short...I use my mids there on four specific holes, which are the longest, off the tee. The next closest course to me is longer but much tighter shots (lots of trees as well as a river going through pretty much the entire course) and there it will vary...sometimes a mid off the tee but sometimes a mid to approach with on the longer holes.

I do bag fast mids (Roc3s, BuzzzOS) primarily, but there are some slower OG Rocs and a Vroc in the mix as well. Ive been playing a long time and the ever so slightly faster mids that offer the same pinpoint precision as their slower progenitors has been a revelation for the game and sport side of disc golf.

TL;DR I think its more dependent on the type of course you play rather than the individual player.

 

[domromer]

It's funny I've been playing very regularly for that past 15 years and I've just begun noticing that I hardly throw my mids anymore. I drive a lot more with my putter on shots where I'd use a mid in the past and most upshots I'll handle with a putter as well. For tree lined tunnel shots with low overheard I'll send out a fairway driver like leopard or Eagle.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Rol6566]

Mids allow you to throw the same lines as a putter but without the height. I can throw my putters 250+, but to do that they need a lot of height and room to work. On the course Id much rather just disc up to something faster and get the same results on a lower line.

Same with approaches, instead of powering up a putter, just disc up to a mid and get there easily. I dont throw my mids a lot, but when I do they are invaluable

 

[Moose33]

I was in a similar spot to what you are describing for a while. My BH form was good enough that I could get a putter near 300, but could t throw a driver much over 350 yet, except for the occasional 400 ft accidental rip. And with mids at just 300-325 I began not feeling they were necessary. Then suddenly things clinched and I got to 400+ consistently with my drivers, 375+ with my fairways and the 300-375 gap was easily filled by somewhat old school, slower midranges. The Yao, Champ Roc and eventually the Bard fit theater spot perfectly.

So for some peopl at certain part of their discing lives, they may superfluous, but overall they are extremely useful.

I looked up a round journal from 2014 at the silvers at Oregon Park; 18!tee shots all with drivers, only threw a mid 2 times.

Played the same course last week; 18!twe shots 1 with a driver, 3 with a putter, 14 with a mid.

 

[zontar]

Mids allow you to throw the same lines as a putter but without the height. I can throw my putters 250+, but to do that they need a lot of height and room to work. On the course Id much rather just disc up to something faster and get the same results on a lower line.

Same with approaches, instead of powering up a putter, just disc up to a mid and get there easily. I dont throw my mids a lot, but when I do they are invaluable

this. I've lately been trying to make use of my putters for longer approach shots, and am bagging one mid (Mako), and three putters (KC Aviar, Whale, Polecat). for open shots I'm doing fine with the putters, but the Mako lets me thread the needle when I have to. as another poster mentioned, taking a class OUT of your bag will show you how much you "need" it in your quiver.

oh, and FWIW, I'm an unabashed mid lover, so take these words with a grain of salt...

 

[armiller]

I have mids in the bag because they hit certain lines with ease. I agree there are certain courses where I could get by without them, mainly wide open courses. I also admit there's some overlap of my putters with my mids (and in some cases, my putters can go even farther than the mids), but those mids just hit the desired lines a lot better.

If you're a primarily forehand player, as someone supposed, I can give some suggestions. I find speed 5 a nice speed (Buzzz, for me) for less-than-full-power forehands, e.g. 220' straight shots or woodsy forehand turnover approaches from weird stances. Took some work, but those shots are really useful and I haven't been able to duplicate them with a putter or fairway. I also bag a Comet, which seems to be able to do things other discs can't.

 

[jugg3rnautx]

Switching to envy/proxy almost knocked my mids completely out of my bag. They get such easy distance and are extremely controllable and are also easy to flick. Mids that I do have that are great for when I need a bit extra distance but still not quite fairway distance are a compass (for dead straight shots), mvp matrix (longer envy), kastaplast kaxe (which is great on forehand shots), and also a gator for the really beefy shots.

I'd recommend that Kastaplast Kaxe or Kaxe Z for the in between role.

 

[MrGlass01]

I didn't carry mids for the last two seasons. Didn't miss them. Then recently I tossed a bard and a warship back in the bag. They come out now when I don't want to throw my putters too hard. Similar lines to my putters, but less effort and more accuracy. It's strange I'll drive with a putter before a mid, but lately mids are getting the call up for approaches. The older I get the effort I put into a shot is becoming more important to me than the disc if that makes sense.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Midranges in general are the true tweener mold of DG today.

We have so many faster putters and slower drivers that mids can get lost in the mix. Id also argue make the best molds to learn on and as a single disc mold. So on one hand they are "the best" and other hand they can be "useless". (especially very OS ones )

Look at it this way- some older drivers were basically large diameter mids of today. The old floaty putters are pretty much no longer a thing for most players as finesse disc golf has gone out the window.

I use two kinds of mids: slightly OS/stable faster mid and slighty US slower mid.

The faster stable mid is used like a longer version of my putter. Lower lines and some skip action headwind etc.. The US mold can pretty much fly on any line but a helix so it gets used as an easier to throw putter kind of mold or precision driver for carving up tight lines.

Be able to throw putters well doesnt take throws away from mids it just shows how they can be useful. I love mashing an ion or proxy but the ladies out on the course dont really care what my disc speed is...

Hmm what are we talking about again?

 

[Marmoset]

Mids allow you to throw the same lines as a putter but without the height. I can throw my putters 250+, but to do that they need a lot of height and room to work. On the course Id much rather just disc up to something faster and get the same results on a lower line.

Same with approaches, instead of powering up a putter, just disc up to a mid and get there easily. I dont throw my mids a lot, but when I do they are invaluable

This was the post I agreed with the most.
I love mids because:
Lower lines
More wind resistant
Faster
More distance OR same D as putters with lower power requirement
Geometries and weight allocations allow some flight paths not available in a putter configuration
Larger diameters can yield better glide

I play super heavily wooded courses so these things are very beneficial to me. I noticed I don't use my mids as much on open courses unless it is the appropriate disc from the tee. On longer holes it is usually either distance-putter or fairway-putter (or fairway-putter-putter-putter LOL) On our longest holes it is usually distance-fairway-putter. i'm not opposed to using mids in the open but they don't usually seem to make sense when I'm previewing shot candidates in my mind.
Wooded holes are a different beast all together IMO.

 

[the1discChallenge]

I know a lot of people who don't throw mids at all; they're more comfortable powering down a fairway or powering up a putter. For me personally, I love my mids, but I usually only carry 3-4 (US, straight, straight-OS, and OS). I don't like to power down molds and I prefer to let discs fly like they were designed to. A putter will only go around 270-280' on the course, mids up to 310-320', fairways up to 375' and so on. I play better knowing that on a 300 foot hole, I can throw a mid strong and get it there, rather than guessing how much I have to take off of a fairway driver and risk it hyzering out early, blowing past the basket, etc.

So a long answer to your question, I love my mids and use them all the time because of my throwing style. I would try playing a bunch of one or two disc rounds with only mids to learn them better. Just my 2 cents.

 

[TAFL]

Well maybe not existential exactly... but I'm looking to have a thread about the purpose of midrange discs.

I had a discussion just last week that touched on this. I mentioned that in the Long Ago, what set apart my midrange from my drivers was simply how I used them. My speed 4 Shark was my designated mid while my speed 4 Stingray was a driver. Why was that? I thought of the Stingray as a driver because I could more readily get it to carry longer and could control the flight better--meaning better accuracy--at full power. At lower power, though, the Stingray wasn't as responsive, while the Shark proved really reliable for me.

So, if you're getting consistent control with fast putters out to where you get the same consistent control with a powered-down fairway, then you prolly don't have much use for mids. Figure out which discs provide you with the ability to shape the shots at each distance and you're good, whether or not you have any discs classified as mids.

 

[Marmoset]

One thing I forgot to mention is that Nikko rarely- if ever- uses a mid. So mids are not completely necessary even at the top level. I should mention that Nikko is in the minority which is why he is noteworthy in this example.

I have seen Nikko crush his putter 400'. If I had that kind of power then my disc selection would surely change.

 

[Three Putt]

There are a lot of courses that take mids out of my game. Park style courses that don't force one shot over the other and set up with a lot of 300'+ drives. The distance makes me use a driver off the tee and generally from there I'm throwing a putter. I'll go rounds with the mids along for the ride.

Better courses put me in situations where I'm forced into hitting a certain line, and the mids come out.