I am going off on my own, a totally new approach

[Putt for D'oh]

If baseball hitters don't pivot on/from their back leg/foot when they are hitting, then what would you call it?
.

Back leg pivot is simply improper teaching of a baseball swing to give a false sense of power from the hips. The "squish the bug" rear foot motion to torque the hips doesn't add a significant amount of power and is really akin to "spinning out" in a disc golf throw.

High level hitter are weight shifting forward into their plant foot de-weighting their rear foot, and creating linear momentum.

That posture is key, getting weight onto the front foot.

 

[slowplastic]

If baseball hitters don't pivot on/from their back leg/foot when they are hitting, then what would you call it?

Edit: I got beat above heh

Lefty baseball swing is like a RHBH throw...the arm length is a bit different though because you have both hands on the bat and aren't throwing it. But hips and posting up on the front leg are the same. You can see in this picture he is aligned on the front leg and there is no weight on the rear foot at all, although yes the top of the shoe is contacting the ground. You can imagine he's throwing a steep hyzer, although his arm is pretty pinned to his chest because like I said the arm can't extend the same way with the back hand along for the ride.

Most people are right handed/right footed and swing a baseball bat righty. So they try to push their body with their right foot in front of them to rotate and push the bat with the right hand/trailing side. Mechanics should be the same as disc golf where you land on the front leg and clear your body, and use the lead/bottom hand to pull or guide the bat.

To bring this back to the concept of the thread though, in baseball/golf you have to have the trailing side moving with the front side because they are connected to the same object. That's why the battering ram drill really helped me finally figure out how to keep my left shoulder moving with me and where to get my left elbow to go during my throw.

 

[runningDoc]

even at the highest levels of baseball hitting what to do with the back leg is a mystery to some.

but lifting/de-weighting/moving the back leg is actively applied by some of the greatest hitters.

https://youtu.be/3S7BItt8eYQ

what edgar martinez does with his back leg makes a ton of sense in regards to being able to hit to the opposite field consistently. also his method of keeping the barrel of the bat level through the zone the longest.

 

[drk_evns]

I realized if I leave my shoulder joint "locked" at like 120-140 degrees that it stays in the perfect position. It collapses to a smaller angle on the pull because of the power I'm generating from my feet/legs/hips/core, but I'm just telling my shoulder to stay in one spot. It's totally passive (perceived, in reality you're working against the forces making it want to collapse to rounding). No strong arm. Super powerful. It's the same "tendon bounce" you get if you just try to keep your wrist straight in the throw. It bends and snaps back naturally... and at the perfect time.

No need to "start from scratch" most everything else I've learned from SW22 has said also still applies. I like that he's not flippant in his teaching/understanding, so his videos supplement each other instead of replacing...

 

[drk_evns]

even at the highest levels of baseball hitting what to do with the back leg is a mystery to some.

but lifting/de-weighting/moving the back leg is actively applied by some of the greatest hitters.

https://youtu.be/3S7BItt8eYQ

what edgar martinez does with his back leg makes a ton of sense in regards to being able to hit to the opposite field consistently. also his method of keeping the barrel of the bat level through the zone the longest.

Hey look it's the KJ Nybo/Paige Pierce back foot.

 

[King John Henry]

I just read through this thread and really don't see how this concept really is any different than the don't spill the beverage drill:

https://youtu.be/2Awpyw2k3QM

What to do with the off arm/how to engage the left side or shoulder became very clear to me a few weeks ago while doing this drill in my living room while watching my reflection in the door wall to make sure I maintained my posture.

I started off with a glass of water and did my swing motion very slowly. As I would reach back and then swing through, I noticed something interesting that would happen with the glass naturally.

As I would start my swing, I would have the glass near my belt buckle, but as soon as I started my reach back, the glass would start to raise naturally up towards my sternum under my chin. As I would start to swing forward, the glass would naturally travel back down the same path until my arm was positioned naturally around where McBeth's is on his swing. Not only does it help keeping your off arm tucked in to your body, but I could actually feel my left shoulder/arm adding to the throw. I believe it helped with my timing too.

I believe this is the feeling that BW is trying to get folks to feel by tucking their off arm in their armpit or on their lead shoulder. Just as others have said on this forum, and even on this thread-- I think a lot of us are trying to say the same thing, just in different ways.

 

[deyo7]

It's good to have things said differently, explained from a different perspective. You can tell by some of the earlier comments that it helped and some thought the throwing arm was active. I appreciate BW coming at it "differently". Good stuff

 

[BrotherDave]

I realized if I leave my shoulder joint "locked" at like 120-140 degrees that it stays in the perfect position. It collapses to a smaller angle on the pull because of the power I'm generating from my feet/legs/hips/core, but I'm just telling my shoulder to stay in one spot. It's totally passive (perceived, in reality you're working against the forces making it want to collapse to rounding). No strong arm. Super powerful. It's the same "tendon bounce" you get if you just try to keep your wrist straight in the throw. It bends and snaps back naturally... and at the perfect time.

No need to "start from scratch" most everything else I've learned from SW22 has said also still applies. I like that he's not flippant in his teaching/understanding, so his videos supplement each other instead of replacing...

Is this what Seppo Paju is doing? I thought he was just preloading his wrist but I started studying him closer and noticed he's really just keeping his shoulder angle fixed it seems.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Good stuff. Too tired to say anything of great value.

But I think the idea is a passive upper body.

The hips and legs work hard while the upper body's goal is a more quite, smooth, last sec acceleration.

 

[sidewinder22]

even at the highest levels of baseball hitting what to do with the back leg is a mystery to some.

but lifting/de-weighting/moving the back leg is actively applied by some of the greatest hitters.

https://youtu.be/3S7BItt8eYQ

what edgar martinez does with his back leg makes a ton of sense in regards to being able to hit to the opposite field consistently. also his method of keeping the barrel of the bat level through the zone the longest.

As a drill you can lift it, but during the swing it's not an active lifting, it's a reaction from driving everything else off the rear foot in proper ground up kinetic sequence. The rear foot/leg is pushing all your weight(CoG)/momentum forward ground up, and then your weight/momentum pulls/drags the de-weighted foot up and counters the arm swing in equal and opposite to keep extending the hand away from the foot, and clearing the rear side back out of the way to give you more space to swing/extend through.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s

 

[ranger]

I think I'm in the "need to see the video" camp. I sorta understand this but I'm definitely not getting all of it.

 

[drk_evns]

Is this what Seppo Paju is doing? I thought he was just preloading his wrist but I started studying him closer and noticed he's really just keeping his shoulder angle fixed it seems.

Yeah it's more pronounced in Seppo's swing because he locks it in much earlier and has no "pump" like a lot of pros do.

But really, most of the top pros are "doing it." Throwing with a seemingly passive arm is just the correct way to throw.

I say seemingly passive because it actually is engaged it's just not actively moving relative to your upper body.

 

[drk_evns]

To add to that, BW's video about the arc and pointing the elbow 45 degrees left of target is still valid in my opinion.

I can still throw with a passive shoulder and pull the disc in tight with my elbow to create a larger arc. When I do this, I can feel my whole arm uncoil more aggressively and I get a ton of extra spin/stability on the disc. I sometimes actively do this when throwing something I need to ensure doesn't flip. Conversely, I'll throw with less pull with the elbow if I really want to make sure I turn my mids over on shorter shots.

 

[Lumberjack504]

To add to that, BW's video about the arc and pointing the elbow 45 degrees left of target is still valid in my opinion.

I can still throw with a passive shoulder and pull the disc in tight with my elbow to create a larger arc. When I do this, I can feel my whole arm uncoil more aggressively and I get a ton of extra spin/stability on the disc. I sometimes actively do this when throwing something I need to ensure doesn't flip. Conversely, I'll throw with less pull with the elbow if I really want to make sure I turn my mids over on shorter shots.

I agree, the 45 degree elbow thing really goes hand-in-hand with the diagonal shift idea, IMO. (I think SW's hammer toss video shows this)

 

[broomerang]

I can still throw with a passive shoulder and pull the disc in tight with my elbow to create a larger arc. When I do this, I can feel my whole arm uncoil more aggressively and I get a ton of extra spin/stability on the disc. I sometimes actively do this when throwing something I need to ensure doesn't flip. Conversely, I'll throw with less pull with the elbow if I really want to make sure I turn my mids over on shorter shots.

I don't understand what you mean. If I throw the disc with more velocity, it flips over more.

Just from your description it sounds like you might be modifying the release angle as a side effect of your different throwing motions.

 

[drk_evns]

I don't understand what you mean. If I throw the disc with more velocity, it flips over more.

Just from your description it sounds like you might be modifying the release angle as a side effect of your different throwing motions.

Nope. I'm adding more spin with similar velocity. Spin gives the disc more gyroscopic stability, which means less flip and less dramatic fade.

Useful for throwing understable discs on big hyzers that travel unbelievably far to the left. Also useful for throwing lines with less deviation in the flightpath in general.

 

[broomerang]

Nope. I'm adding more spin with similar velocity. Spin gives the disc more gyroscopic stability, which means less flip and less dramatic fade.

Useful for throwing understable discs on big hyzers that travel unbelievably far to the left. Also useful for throwing lines with less deviation in the flightpath in general.

Ah. I have never done this. Could you post a side-by-side of the different throws?

 

[drk_evns]

Ah. I have never done this. Could you post a side-by-side of the different throws?

Yeah, I'll see if I can get good footage when I get to the field next (hopefully sometime this week/weekend).

I'm not sure how visible the difference will be honestly, but we're going to find out! I'll make sure to throw something understable to show the difference in the flight paths on my drone and have my iPhone on me in slo-mo.

 

[slowplastic]

I don't understand what you mean. If I throw the disc with more velocity, it flips over more.

Just from your description it sounds like you might be modifying the release angle as a side effect of your different throwing motions.

Yeah it's weird...sometimes you figure out a way to have a longer arc something to get more spin on the disc and even if you are throwing harder, it resists turn more than expected. It's why pro's can throw Leo's 400' while regular guys on the course may have it turn over for them too much.

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah it's weird...sometimes you figure out a way to have a longer arc something to get more spin on the disc and even if you are throwing harder, it resists turn more than expected. It's why pro's can throw Leo's 400' while regular guys on the course may have it turn over for them too much.

Yep.

My Leo3 goes almost as far as my max distance destroyers.