In need of backhand guidance: One year of playing

[sidewinder22]

1. Stance is 6-12" too wide.

2. You are swinging the hammer head too far back around you so the handle is perpendicular to target at the top of your backswing. The handle should stay close to pointed away from target at top of backswing, so the hammer's head/weight is pulling straight back away from target.

3. Your arm remains mostly straight during forward swing. Bend your elbow on forward swing, lag the hammer behind the elbow like a normal hammer action but sideways.

 

[CEP1295]

1. Stance is 6-12" too wide.

2. You are swinging the hammer head too far back around you so the handle is perpendicular to target at the top of your backswing. The handle should stay close to pointed away from target at top of backswing, so the hammer's head/weight is pulling straight back away from target.

3. Your arm remains mostly straight during forward swing. Bend your elbow on forward swing, lag the hammer behind the elbow like a normal hammer action but sideways.

Thanks for the corrections. Here is an update with me trying to fix all of those things. With that sideways bend, I'm really feeling the incorporation of some of the back into it that isn't a rotation of the back but more of a compression and release. Another thing I stumbled across was the actual plane of the swing, I don't think I had a great swing plane starting out. How I noticed this was that if I felt like my legs, core, hips, and back were doing the right thing, it felt like my arm was uncomfortable and that there was a discontinuous transfer of energy. In order to keep my arm up on a good plane, I needed a lot more of my tricep to be engaged. In the first video, you can see me lining up that swing and my tricep is holding the line.

Video one (good reachback, hammer handle away from target): https://youtu.be/Si3NE1_YYJQ

Video two (too much of a reachback, end up rotating behind): https://youtu.be/vYsw-Tk35c4

 

[CEP1295]

Alright, took a little break, but now I'm back.

Here, I focused on getting the lower body pumping the disc. One of my issues in the past was thinking that the brace or pump meant that I hit the ground with a stiff leg, which is obviously not the case. I believe I am now doing it correctly since there was a lot more power and fluidity. Some of the key feelings I took note of:

- You aren't stiffening your leg against the ground. You almost want to be relaxed and push into the ground gradually based on how much pump you're giving.
- I could finally feel that sitting position where my COG was between my legs.
- I realized I was not following through with the disc at all. When throwing the hammer, I felt like I was cutting the swing short after release, so I had to focus hard on letting the weight of the hammer pull me all the way through and it was mindblowing how smooth it felt, and how I did not get caught in anypart of the swing.
- My legs were on fire after doing this, I know all the movements were super exaggerated and doesn't look like a controlled disc golf stroke, but I feel like this is what is needed to break some bad habits and finally start using my lower body and weight correctly.

Things I need to work on:

- continue working on the lower body pump
- figure out how to correctly position my upper body in the forward pump, and the backswing so that I have a nice swing plane. I noticed while reworking my lower body, my upper body's swing was all over the place and I was tending to open up too early.

Video: https://youtu.be/rT5PNmzaebo

 

[CEP1295]

Back at it again

Greetings,

Took a little break from posting on here to continue doing some research on throwing. This forum is a goldmine of different ways of thinking about throwing very happy to have it as a resource.

One thing that I looked at a lot recently was the end of SW22 Simon Syndrome video where there were videos of AB bowling, some standstills from Wiggins Jr. and a really great angle of Eagle's backhand. I did a lot of messing around and the video I'll be linking is where I'm at now.

https://youtu.be/-tv1YRCh-gQ

 

[sidewinder22]

Work on Door Frame and Bow Arrow Drills. You are reaching back too high and tipping your upper body over top into plant, instead of leading with your butt/center more with lower reachback. Start the lawnmower, not the ceiling fan.

 

[CEP1295]

Alright, took some time to rework a few things. First was the reach back as you mentioned in the previous post. I began working it lower to feel more stacked behind the plant instead of tipping over it. Next thing was that my arm felt disconnected from the rest of what my body was doing. I felt like I was generating power from my legs, but the arm/shoulder wasn't staying connected to act like the sling for the disc, and I noticed that during the swing my arm would be open with the palm facing upwards. I noticed this was a huge issue when the disc wasn't pulling from the pads of my fingers, but instead was cracking my fingernails since it would rip out of my hand when the palm was up and the last point of grip was the finger nails. So here is a video of me trying to stay stacked against the plant, leading with my butt into the plant, and keeping my shoulder and arm as a big sling instead of trying to throw with the arm.

One critique I already have from this video is that I'm trying to throw way too hard into the net when I should be slowing it down. Anyways, all help is appreciated.

Video: https://youtu.be/qrY9awYmFTs

 

[sidewinder22]

You are leaning way back behind your rear foot in backswing, instead of staying leveraged inside your posture/feet.

 

[CEP1295]

That golf swing video made a lot of sense, but even with that knowledge I don't think my body is getting used to a proper swing. I've seen a lot of golf swing videos being sent around for disc golf mechanics, especially Dr. Kwon's videos which I've been looking at especially since it appears he's getting into disc golf which is great.

Here is a video of me trying to replicate the swing in the golf drills. I grew up swinging left handed in baseball, and my roommate has left handed clubs, so I decided to try a golf swing and then do some disc golf swings as well. These felt super strange, and not necessarily powerful, but I'm trying to stay mindful that "feeling powerful" and actually being powerful are very different.

video: https://youtu.be/MKZ0o67km-s

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Not a fan of the static backswing. Swing back and forth perpetually and go right into the backswing.

2. You are tipping/tilting your upper body over top into the plant, high reachback and low finish. You need to tilt back into the plant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[CEP1295]

I feel like I'm not being dynamic enough, or not as athletic as I should be when doing this. I haven't played any sports since baseball in high school or skateboarding at the beginning of college, so I feel like I came into disc golf not thinking about the throw athletically. I'm not sure how this looks, but it feels better on the body. I don't feel like I'm getting any binding anywhere, and feels fluid, but I noticed that my throwing arm is still a little palm up and its being held very wide/far from the body. I do think the lower body, shoulders, and back look better, but I'm the one asking for help here so I'm not entirely sure.

Youtube: https://youtu.be/oPYDscno14A

 

[Brychanus]

I agree that this is supposed to be an athletic move. To some athletes it feels obvious right away. A lot of us need to learn tricks to turn the dinky frisbee toss into an athletic toss. I also have had a lot of problems with the difference between 'static' and 'dynamic' and moving better overall.

Your video:
-You also need to get the "pulled taut" or full "bow load" in the backswing for the action and sequence to work correctly.

-Do the door frame drill. Deep secrets of the swing await you. Yes, you should feel dynamic against the frame. I had to learn to bounce against it nice and loose and get pulled taut and learn where my feet need to go and then drop off of it. It's not a static thing and you may need to exaggerate parts of it. Post it. All of these things will help you.

 

[CEP1295]

I agree that this is supposed to be an athletic move. To some athletes it feels obvious right away. A lot of us need to learn tricks to turn the dinky frisbee toss into an athletic toss. I also have had a lot of problems with the difference between 'static' and 'dynamic' and moving better overall.

Your video:
-You also need to get the "pulled taut" or full "bow load" in the backswing for the action and sequence to work correctly.

-Do the door frame drill. Deep secrets of the swing await you. Yes, you should feel dynamic against the frame. I had to learn to bounce against it nice and loose and get pulled taut and learn where my feet need to go and then drop off of it. It's not a static thing and you may need to exaggerate parts of it. Post it. All of these things will help you.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I'm not sure where the static swing come into my mind, but I've been playing standstill rounds and have already been throwing better by mentally thinking about being athletic. Here are some photos of me doing the door frame drill. I've done this in the past, and it didn't make much sense on how it is supposed to help out. Here are some of my thoughts and questions with it:

- While doing the doorframe drill, should I be centered with my spine between my feet with my weight all on the back foot?

- I feel a little off-balance when transitioning from the back foot to the plant foot when letting go of the door, is this because I am doing a drill and shouldn't necessarily feel an even flow?

- Am I reaching too low in this? Should I stand more tall?

Thanks.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to walk your rear foot closer to target while holding on. That should coil or wind you up more moving your rear foot closer to lead shoulder or loading the shoulder back closer to rear foot.

 

[CEP1295]

Here is a video of me moving with the door frame drill. I was talking in the video about somethings I was noticing. Video: https://youtu.be/x_w7A4o-tHo

 

[sidewinder22]

That is the right path, got better as you went on. Could probably walk your rear foot just a couple inches closer to target.

 

[CEP1295]

That is the right path, got better as you went on. Could probably walk your rear foot just a couple inches closer to target.

Here is one where I try to squeeze as much leverage as I can from my back foot by walking it more targetwards. I definitely felt way more coiling, and felt like I was storing a bunch of energy. I don't see where I can take that and transfer it into the swing. At the peak reach back, my back is turned from the target and I feel all the energy building up, but I'm not sure what part of my body moves next. When I'm fully reached back, am I supposed to feel like I'm making an upward stroke with my arm? Almost like I'm swimming in a pool with my palm facing the target? Not exactly sure what happens next.

Video: https://youtu.be/DwOPzVIVtn4

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like your rear foot is turned in too much, and maybe too close to target. Note how you finish well behind your front foot, and your rear heel remains flat on the ground.

 

[CEP1295]

Looks like your rear foot is turned in too much, and maybe too close to target. Note how you finish well behind your front foot, and your rear heel remains flat on the ground.

I think I was over exaggerating not having the rear foot turned too far back, I know it should be turned back enough to let the body come through. I definitely see where you are saying I'm behind my front foot, I think that's me trying to stretch out but not being balanced. If I were to have those issues fixed, what does the swing feel like? I feel like I am trying to swing open by twisting my back which is not great, but I don't feel like I have any leverage in the way my arm is currently set.

 

[sidewinder22]

Probably relevant...

Our posture/intention is quite different.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132910

If we both were about to get tackled by a linebacker, you would get creamed, while I would be able to take that hit on in better athletic position and balance.

You are trying to swing around too much while I'm swinging more forward/targetward.

Note how your hips are extended/thrusted so you stand up/lean back more, while my hips are hinged back deeper(buttwipe) so my shoulders/chest are more forward over my knees/hips in athletic position.

 

[Brychanus]

I think I was over exaggerating not having the rear foot turned too far back, I know it should be turned back enough to let the body come through. I definitely see where you are saying I'm behind my front foot, I think that's me trying to stretch out but not being balanced. If I were to have those issues fixed, what does the swing feel like? I feel like I am trying to swing open by twisting my back which is not great, but I don't feel like I have any leverage in the way my arm is currently set.

~2:53-5:00 here is relevant re: intent, posture, and feel. It feels like building elastic tension when you swing back (drop against the frame) that is released when you land. Hitting was always initially easier than tossing for me probably due to martial arts. When I strayed away from this framework I got in trouble.
https://youtu.be/R_ZJxZUZkLI?t=173

When I punch or backfist something it's more like what SW is doing there in DFD4 and it feels similar. If you have a resistance band you can try it. Importantly, notice he's dropping onto that front leg so that it's helping clear the hip and lead the swing better than you or TonLoc there.