Interference or not?

[sqatch]

Player A has uphill put and places bag next to him.
Player A putts, hits basket and watches his putter roll back towards him and his bag and does nothing to prevent putter from hitting his bag.
Player A thinks he can putt again from where his bag stopped his rolling putter.
Player B (me) says Whaaaaaat! (dave chappele style)
What is the ruling on said throw?

 

[bradharris]

Player a is correct.

 

[sqatch]

Rats!
Thanks bradharris.

 

[bradharris]

The key thing was that it was not intentional. He had no expectation that his bag would be in line of a rolling putt.

Prior to the shot, you can ask him to move his bag if you suspect that it may come into play. But once the disc is thrown, it's played as part of the course.

 

[sqatch]

That sounds fair. His bag was not intentionally or strategically placed so....my bad. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[iacas]

I still think this is a stupid rule that should be changed.

I prefer the way golf handles this kind of thing (player's ball hitting himself or his equipment, or player's ball hitting opponents or opponent's equipment).

The way the rule is written now you should always put your bag down on the downhill side of a basket, and not move at all if a disc is rolling back towards you and might hit you.

 

[sqatch]

Agreed iacas.
I would have moved my bag as soon as I realized my putter was heading towards it. Out of respect for my fellow competitors.

 

[Okie-J]

I prefer the way golf handles this kind of thing (player's ball hitting himself or his equipment, or player's ball hitting opponents or opponent's equipment).

Explain,.

 

[jongoff09]

Explain,.

In golf, if the ball is deflected or stopped by the player, his/her caddie, or any of the player's equipment, then the player is subject to a one stroke penalty. Adopting this for disc golf would leave no grey area when trying to prove intent when someone leaves a bag on the downhill side of a basket. A player would always have to be responsible for and conscious of where to put a bag or stool being used.

If a ball hits another player or his/her caddie or equipment in golf, then the ball is just played as it lies unless it is actually in/on the equipment or player. If that player deflected or stopped it intentionally, then that player gets a two stroke penalty, and can be disqualified if deemed appropriate.

 

[New013]

In golf it's usually not a safety issue trying to get out of the way of a ball. In disc golf on hillsides especially the safety issue comes much more in to play.

 

[jongoff09]

In golf it's usually not a safety issue trying to get out of the way of a ball. In disc golf on hillsides especially the safety issue comes much more in to play.

Discs don't come back at you at high rates of speed like balls do. I've never had a problem getting myself or my bag out of the way of a disc, but I have twisted an ankle and strained a groin while trying to avoid a golf ball (luckily it was hole 18). I wouldn't have had a chance to move my bag if it was headed toward it. If my bag was behind me and the ball was headed that way, I would have just had to accept the extra penalty.

 

[araytx]

We've had this discussion for years apparently. While I disagree with several of those who want to write the rule for this situation only or those who want to penalized the player any time they touch a disc in flight, I like the rule as written.

The problem here is that NO ONE in the group noticed that his bag being on the downhill side created a potential interference situation. The group COULD HAVE said, "hey don't leave your bag there," and then it is a moot point. So if anyone in THAT GROUP has a complaint that there's no interference on that call it's their fault, along with the player who left his bag there.


See many other comments here: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88718

 

[kerplunk]

I think this may be the most misunderstood rule in DG, followed by a legal jump putt. I thought for a long time that a disc hitting a bag was a stroke penalty on the person whose bag it was, until I read threads here on DGCR. I know many experienced players who still think that.

 

[3j0hn]

Agreed iacas.
I would have moved my bag as soon as I realized my putter was heading towards it. Out of respect for my fellow competitors.

I would be concerned about accidentally hitting your putter as you moved your bag turning something that only just looked like interference into actual interference.

This is why I like the rule as written: if you don't do anything after the disc is thrown, you can't be penalized.

 

[JC17393]

This is why I like the rule as written: if you don't do anything after the disc is thrown, you can't be penalized.

I think that's true most of the time, but not all of the time. I think if you have the opportunity to avoid contact with a thrown disc and you don't take it, you can be penalized. Please note I did not say should be penalized, just that you can be.

That's a big reason why the rule contains the word "intentional" to modify penalizable interference. If you see a disc approach you or your bag and you have time to move yourself or your bag from the path of the disc, you should at least make an effort to move yourself or the bag. If your effort is unsuccessful and you or the bag are struck, so be it. But standing still and letting a disc hit you or your bag with no attempt to avoid contact could very well be construed as intent to interfere.

It's akin to being hit by a pitch in baseball. By rule, the batter is required to make an attempt to avoid the contact if possible. In general, players do attempt to avoid contact simply as a course of self-preservation. Sometimes, especially with some of the armor players wear, they just let the ball hit them. Umpires have the discretion to not award the base if the player doesn't attempt to avoid the ball. It's rarely called, but it can be. Same with a thrown disc.

 

[3j0hn]

But, "intentional" is a lot harder to call if you are stationary and a disc hit you (or your bag) than if you moved suddenly and the disc hit you (or your bag).

 

[JoakimBL]

I hate the current interference rule. The maximum penalty for this situation is a curtesy violation. And that is only if player A refuses to move his bag if someone else asks him to. And if the disc strikes player A, there is no penalty at all.
I too would love to see the golf rule adapted. No grey area, no interpretation necessary.

 

[DavidSauls]

Does the golf rule apply to a ball hit from another fairway?

Because I've unintentionally "interfered" with wayward discs from other fairways, but don't recall ever interfering with my own shot, or someone in my group. It would be odd to be penalized for being struck from another fairway.

As for the current rule---does it happen often enough to be of any real concern?

 

[iacas]

Does the golf rule apply to a ball hit from another fairway?

The rule covers it.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-19/

 

[JoakimBL]

As for the current rule---does it happen often enough to be of any real concern?

Should the rules that are there not be as good as possible? What is often enough? I'm guessing one time if is deciding the winner of a Major. In a self officiating sport, it is my opinion the rules should be as simple as possible, with as little room for interpretation as possible. The rule change would be simple and in my opinion only for the better.

Also, the current wording of the rules basically allows you to interfere with your own disc without penalty. There is only a penalty for interfering with other players disc. To administer a penalty for interfering with your own disc, you have to use the rule of fairness and find the most similar rule, if that is how you want to interpret the rule book.